Timberwolf bimetal blades for resaw?

[Patrick Walsh]

Lennox Woodmaster C.T.

1x.035 1.3T .051 kerf

No tension gauge...

Well one on th e saw buy]t...

Googled a bit about bs tg’s and it seems most say they re not accurate for reliable. Maybe those are just the cheap people talking?’’

[Patrick Walsh]

I had a resaw king and was not impressed as mentioned on the 14/12.

I must have been misguided when I purchased the saw and the sales person suggested it for resaw work.

From what I could tell the machine could not tension it properly.

If have such a problem with this saw I might loose my bleep..

Patrick, I think you meant .035. You don't have to worry about putting too much tension on that blade with your saw. Crank it up to where you think you need it, and try it. If it needs some more, the blade can take it. You probably won't need as much as you can get for it to cut smoothly. If you have never used this blade before, welcome to a new world in resawing.

[Patrick Walsh]

Van that is a very generous offer and if I get a strain gauge I just might take you up on it at some point.

I have been reading a bit about strain gauges and it seems many feel they are a waste, inaccurate or not able to produce repeated results.

I love myself a reason to buy another tool along with 100% the dedicated to being well prepared but I would want to know that unanimously a tension gauge works. If so it seems like small money imop. Of course I’d have to have that $500 Sterrett one lol...

He switched the numbers, while off the top of my head I don't know the kerf of the C or B Woodmasters the Woodmaster CT (in the sizes we here use for vertical saws) is .051 vs .015.

To Patrick, I of a member of the church of tension and have found MANY of peoples resawing issues are from low tension (though it can be many other things as well). If the Lenox blade is a Woodmaster CT (carbide) blade it is probably the best general resaw blade for the MM20 class of saw for speed, there are better blades for finish.

One really needs a strain gauge to know what tension they are running at but most hobbyists balk at the $200+ for a commercial one and don't bother building one. However, I do have extensive notes on many blades I have run on the 400/500/600 Centauro (Minimax) saws and while my 400 and 600 are in storage I have the 500 set up in my temporary shop and have 40 or so different blades for it including the whole Woodmaster family (I think I only have 1" widths but would have to check). If you let me know the exact blade I can either refer to my notes or string up one and give you the PSI vs the gauge on the saw for the correct tension range for the particular blade.

[Andrew Hughes]

I've never used one to tension my WoodMaster ct blades. I did crank up the tension once to see if my cut would improve I didn't see any difference in the surface but the blade did stop spinning the rear bearing.
I lean toward the sharp blade fixes most problems with a bandsaw.
My saw is a Aggazani b20/20. Probably not as heavy built as the mini max.
I don't think you need one.

[Patrick Walsh]

That’s good cuz I’m kinda broke for a while..

Well need to stop spending so I’m not broke but.....

I've never used one to tension my WoodMaster ct blades. I did crank up the tension once to see if my cut would improve I didn't see any difference in the surface but the blade did stop spinning the rear bearing.
I lean toward the sharp blade fixes most problems with a bandsaw.
My saw is a Aggazani b20/20. Probably not as heavy built as the mini max.
I don't think you need one.

[Tom M King]

I think my saw has a built in tension gauge, but I don't ever remember looking at it.

[Andrew Hughes]

That's a sure sign of old age tom I can't remember half of what I did yesterday .
I do remember when I tension my saw I turn it till the pointer hits the one inch mark and give it a 1/4 turn more.
I also use the blade length Jesse first gave me.

[Van Huskey]

Lennox Woodmaster C.T.

1x.035 1.3T .051 kerf

No tension gauge...

Well one on th e saw buy]t...

Googled a bit about bs tg’s and it seems most say they re not accurate for reliable. Maybe those are just the cheap people talking?’’

That is an easy one for me because I have used it a lot on the 500, I used it when I had the feeder on the 500, I have a Trimaster on it now. Look at the tension gauge on the saw frame see the sliding white "cursor"? Tighten until the that cursor is 2 widths of that white line ABOVE the 1.5" mark that is between 28k and 30k PSI for that blade. There is a lot of tension to be had above the top of the scale on the 500 (the cursor keeps moving well above the 1.5" mark) BUT when if someone reads this and bottoms out their spring and mucks up the works you did NOT hear it from me. Going into that realm requires some mechanical sympathy and a touch and ear that can sense when the spring bottoms out. EDIT: I did not mean to imply that going the 2 cursor widths (maybe I should have said thickness instead) was even near the danger zone, that is still a long way from bottoming the spring but if you go over 10 or so cursor thicknesses above the 1.5" mark you are on your own! Also even right before the spring bottoms out there is still almost zero deflection in the frame.

I have a lot to say about strain gauges/tension meters in regards to them being useless but I will save that for a day (maybe tomorrow) when I feel more like pontificating.

Just one note, for anyone looking for a bandsaw tension/strain gauge Zoro carries the Lenox for ~250, if you sign up with them you get emails with great sales consistently the last one I bought was in one of their 25% off sales and paid less than $200. Most of the time the more you spend the bigger the discount. There are TONS of useful things in the Zoro catalog (which are priced well when the sales hit) and I keep a running list of things in my cart there so when the coupons hit I am ready to go. Some of their stuff is overpriced even on sale, you just have to shop.

(ZORO #: G4929583)

[Tom M King]

I plead guilty to being old, as charged, but I just use pluck, feel, sound, and test cut, regardless of saw, or blade size.

[John TenEyck]

That’s good cuz I’m kinda broke for a while..

Well need to stop spending so I’m not broke but.....

I'm sure I've posted this several times, but the Search function fails me, so I'll post it again.

You can make your own tension meter for the price of a set of Vernier calipers and two little C-clamps.



Set the Verniers at around 5" between the jaws and clamp it the blade, with zero/minimal tension on it, making sure to stay away from the teeth. On a big blade it's really easy, but works fine on the 1/2" x 3 tpi blade shown in the photo. Write down the exact reading on the Verniers, then reset them to zero. Now crank up the tension to whatever you want. The Verniers will register the stain in the blade, and with just a little math you can calculate the stress (tension).

Young's Modulus (E) = Stress/Strain, or

Stress = E x Strain, and Strain = Vernier reading / Gage Length (Initial reading)

The Young's Modulus of steel is about 30 x 10^6 psi. Let's say the Gage Length was 5.010" before I zeroed the Verniers on my little Delta above, and then I cranked up the tension and measured 0.002" where I normally tension it. The tension would be:

Stress = 30x10^6 x (0.002"/5.010") = 11,976 psi, which is pretty typical for that saw. On my Grizzly G0636X I easily get 0.004" of blade elongation when I tension a 1" x 0.035" blade. If the gage length was the same as in the example above, the tension would be exactly twice, or about 24,000 psi.

This works on any blade you can clamp the Verniers to. It costs almost nothing, takes but a minute or two, and is very reproducible. Save your money for something you can't make.

John

[Mike Cutler]

John

It's funny that you posted your method. I remember reading it a decade or so back, if that was you then.
I did a bunch of testing for Mark Duginske on bandsaw blades, and tension, and I used that setup once or twice. It worked as well as the others.

To the OP
Finding the ideal blades takes some trial and error unfortunately, and it can be an expensive learning process. The proof though is in the cut. Whether the saw can properly tension, or not, isn't relevant if the cut quality is bad. As long as you don't bottom out the spring on your saw of course.
I have an 18" Rikon ,10-340. The first year Rikon sold bandsaws in the US. It's had a 1" Lennox 2/3 varipitch TriMaster on it since 2005. That blade is probably running a little bit under tensioned, but the quality of the cut is excellent.

[Van Huskey]

John

It's funny that you posted your method. I remember reading it a decade or so back, if that was you then.
I did a bunch of testing for Mark Duginske on bandsaw blades, and tension, and I used that setup once or twice. It worked as well as the others.

To the OP
Finding the ideal blades takes some trial and error unfortunately, and it can be an expensive learning process. The proof though is in the cut. Whether the saw can properly tension, or not, isn't relevant if the cut quality is bad. As long as you don't bottom out the spring on your saw of course.
I have an 18" Rikon ,10-340. The first year Rikon sold bandsaws in the US. It's had a 1" Lennox 2/3 varipitch TriMaster on it since 2005. That blade is probably running a little bit under tensioned, but the quality of the cut is excellent.

Mike, I have been thinking about you since I read this post yesterday regarding the testing you did for Mark. Not sure the first one to think of the vernier caliper method (it could have been John) but Kurt Loupe <sp? is the one that started the thread that sucked Mark D in. That was back when I only read and didn't have an account here maybe 2004 or 2005, then Kurt got it published in FWW after that and the thread reappeared about 2 years later which is when Mark got involved. Matthias Wandel went a step further and built a dial indicator based version which I am sure you could point out the weaknesses in as you did with the 3 commercial gauges.

I am planning to start a discussion on bandsaw tension and its measurement. I hope you will participate as you have what may be in a wholly unique position to comment on the actual measuring devices, you are the only one I am aware of that has dug into the guts of the commercial gauges as well as having the knowledge AND equipment available to properly test them.

[Mike Cutler]

Van

I look forward to it. I'll have to find my notes and all of the photos I took back then. I still have access to the mechanical standards lab,a d the Dimensional Technician we have is really knowledgable, so if I need to recreate a test, or come up with a new one, I have the ability. It won't be fast though. I changed the jeans and boots for Brooks Brothers, and loafers, at work a few years back.
I've always liked band saws for some reason. As a kid in Jr. High wood working class, it was the machine I used to gravitate towards.
I think that other than the shaper, it is the most under utilized machine in the shop. Which is a shame because it can do so much.
Even though I have two band saws already and possibly a third on the way, I still scan Craigslist and Ebay for them just to see what is out there. I found an older Centauro a few days back. Nice machines.

[Phillip Gregory]

I recently got the Timberwolf 3/4" x 0.035" 2/3 tpi variable pitch bimetal blade for my Grizzly G0513. All of the non-sheet-good stock I work with is rough and thick, either old reclaimed stock or rough sawn lumber off of a sawmill, so there is quite a bit of resawing and milling in my workflow. I had previously used a variety of carbon steel bands ranging from longer versions of the classic 1/2" x 0.025" 3 tpi resaw band for the 14" Delta cast iron saws and clones, up to 1" x 0.035" 1.3" pitch bands. I also use the saw for curve cutting with thinner blades as this saw is my only bandsaw, and was purchased to be able to be a jack-of-all-trades saw. I would have gotten a larger bandsaw to use as a resaw if I had a smaller one for curve cutting, and I anticipate one day the G0513 will probably be my small curve-cutting saw while I get a truly large resaw, but that day hasn't happened yet.

The 3/4" x 0.035 2/3 variable pitch Timberwolf is the best resaw blade I have used on the saw by a good margin and is far more effective than the carbon steel blades I've used.

- The carbon steel blades dull quickly in the rock-hard oak I resaw and after about 10-20 board feet, the 2/3 pitch bimetal blade cuts notably faster than even the 1.3" pitch carbon steel blade I have used. Even brand new, the bimetal blade cut about as quickly as the carbon steel blades.
- The inch wide bands are difficult to get on and off of the saw. 3/4" and narrower bands are easy to install and remove.
- The 2/3 pitch bimetal bands leaves at least as good of a surface finish as the 1/2" 3 tpi bands. I was impressed at the quality of the finish of this band.
- One notable observation is that I never got any noticeable drift or barreling with even the 1/2" bands. Put enough tension on the band and quit using it when it is too dull, and it cuts straight.

I highly recommend this band for smaller steel-framed saws for resawing, and it is notably less pricey than carbide tipped bands.

[lowell holmes]

bimetal "bands" . . . . What are you calling bands? I assume you mean the blade.