Risky Cuts

[Dino Makropoulos]

Sorry to be so uninformed, but not having a table saw was leaving me in the dark. As I understand then, the "risky cut" business would be a matter of choice by the operator, not an inherent trait of the tablesaw. Apparently there are safe ways of making these cuts. So, that makes the tablesaw no different than the rest of the machines in our shops. We can use them safely, or, we can choose to use them, shall we say, ill-advisedly.

John.
I agree with your statement.
The reality is that we all get lured into the spinning blade for an easy fast cut. Knowing that the table saw wasn't designed for this easy fast cut.

In the jobsite is even worse, because you can't have access to all of your "right tools" for the "right cut"

Same goes on the new shops. With limited budget and space we're forced to use the "wrong tool" for the "wrong cut."

And the same goes even when we have it all. In order to get done fast we get lured into the easy cut and we all know the results.

In a perfect woodworking environment, (this is DEV'S world) we need all the right tools,space and knowledge. The right mind set and plenty of time.

We're talking about UTOPIA here.
And the reality is ..5 Billion Dollars a year for hospital bills?
From 1 B Dollars industry?


The only bad cut to myself was from a handsaw. It was hanging on the wall, I looked away while I reached for it. My hand knocked it off the wall and as it fell to the teeth ripped a pretty good cut in the side of my hand. I called that saw every name in the book, including stupid, but as everyone knows, the saw was much smarter than I was just then.

John

... I called that saw every name in the book, including stupid, but as everyone knows, the saw was much smarter than I was just then.

Same here. That Stupid tool. last month I broke the glass on a sliding door trying to cut aluminum without Frank's stop.
Lucky that the piece don't deform my face.
That Stupid tool.

[Paul B. Cresti]

I don't know Paul? I'm not sure going in the ring before you're "tagged" by your partner is allowed.

John

OOPS sorry hey Dev tag me quick and I will tag you back!

[Dino Makropoulos]

Dino,
Well I will give you my answers

1)EFSTS
2)EFSTS
3)EFSTS
4)EFSTS
5)Horzontal mortiser on my MM J/P & planner for doing the tenon stock
6)My new invention of a router mounted in my EFSTS
This allows me to do any type of rabet or dado in any size piece of solid stock or panel stock and my hands are I am no where near the bit!

Hi Paul.
Versatility and safety is the name of the game here.
And the EFSTS is the most versatile tool by design.
requires some space and knowledge,
but non where near to the space that you need
to do all the above from a single tool.

For high production ,we can only talk about CNC's ,Beam saws and straight line rip saws.
Coming from all faces in construction,woodworking
and hardwood production (dimensional plant)
I can say that the EFSTS is the tool of choice
for a custom-semi production shop. And why not for some home shops.
The depth of cut is a feature that you can't be without.

what I like to see is more "router table inventions"
and Smarter Fence Systems.
This way you can comply 100% with the Dead Wood Concept.
The only problem that I saw on the sliders is when used as a regular table saw for ripping. Come up with something there to solve this problem.
Some times the answer is so simple and easy that we just can't see it.

Few years ago, I "donate" few simple ideas to a big CO.
It was taken down by the lawyers of this CO.
You see? If we have no accidents...they have no job??

And here we're talking about "woodworking Utopia."
and creating cults about machinery. Oh well

[Mike Cutler]

Whoa folks, I'm missing something here.
Getting back to the original cut, was it a Rabbett, or a groove/dado?
If I needed to just cut a groove 2" deep in a 12" long, 1"x3", I would have used a tenon jig. If it needed to be a rabbet, I would have used the tenon jig first, and then cut the waste of the rabbet with a ZCI insert, and a sled That covered the material and held it against the fence.

A shaper would have been good also.

Unless I'm missing something, I'm not visualizing how an edge guide sytem, alone, would be used to cut a 2" deep groove in the edge of a board. with repeatability on such a small piece. I'm a little slow sometimes though

[Paul B. Cresti]

The only problem that I saw on the sliders is when used as a regular table saw for ripping. Come up with something there to solve this problem.
Some times the answer is so simple and easy that we just can't see it.

Dino,
Check my older posts where I explain, or try to, my use of my ripping jig for my slider. It allows for the "Dead Wood" concept and gives great accurate repeatable results. There also other ways to use the slider for ripping. By the way I agree with your many points

[Dino Makropoulos]

Dino,
Check my older posts where I explain, or try to, my use of my ripping jig for my slider. It allows for the "Dead Wood" concept and gives great accurate repeatable results. There also other ways to use the slider for ripping. By the way I agree with your many points

Paul.
Give us a link here.
if you solved the problem of ripping on the slider,
talk to the SMCI people and make it available to anyone.
I can put a link to our site to let people know about it.
Thanks Paul.

[Lee DeRaud]

Oh good grief...

Aside from the entertainment value of a good debate, what's up with this almost religious zeal for "The One True Method For Everything"? This thread started with (no offense meant to Burt) an observation to the effect that, since there exists a truly stupid way to perform a certain operation with Tool A, therefore Tool B must be better in all instances...huh?!? This was followed by a bunch of counter-examples from sundry zealots of other persuasions of why Tool B (or C, D, E,...) is, in fact, The Answer.

As somewhat of an agnostic in this debate, I make the following somewhat naive and simplistic observations:
1. The "dead wood" concept is ultimately limited by the fact that the tool being used must be man-portable.
2. The "dead-tool" concept is ultimately limited by the fact that the piece of wood being used must be man-portable.

And for the life of me, I cannot see why any woodworker would willingly subject himself to either of these limitations to satisfy some sort of pseudo-dogma regarding the Right Way To Cut Wood.

Thus endeth the sermon.

(Please don't get me started on lathes: there's a reason those whackos have their own forum. )

[Dennis Peacock]

ewwww-weeeee......I can see that this thread is another "hey mr. moderator, keep an eye on me."

[Dino Makropoulos]

Whoa folks, I'm missing something here.

I can come up with few ways to do this with an "edge guide" and repeatable..
But ...This is Burt's thread and I may learn something new from him.

You can have some hints until Burt can give you an answer.
1.Smart Clamping System that can hold 1/32" thin materials vertical.?
2. Router with 9" of traverse movement without moving the guide rail?

The idea is to secured the wood. If you can secured the wood, the rest is easy and safe.

How fast you can do this with an "edge guide"? If you need production, then you can build a special positioning table.

On industrial aplications, they use conveyors. But while the wood is been cut, the wood is under pressure one way or another. This again is the Dead Wood Concept.

One factory that makes the plastic edges for us, used to have 3 drop saws for the cut to size parts. Now, they have a 12'00" positioning table and one edge guide. The insurance premium now is 20% less and the production can be handle by only one guy with little or no experience on power tools.
Do you think they give us better price now?

The material support, clamping and feeding system is more important than the cutting tool.
To give you an idea.
The most dangerous tools are the portable table saws.
Not enough material support.

[Burt Waddell]

A shaper is a wonderful tool and I have 6 stock feeders. Problem here being this was on site work and I didn't wish to make a trip back to the shop. Actually, the dado was a mobification of existing door parts so working them as a long piece was not an option.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Yep! Keep your eyes on this one Dennis! It's back!!!!

[Ian Barley]

I was gonna join in but Lee has bin'n'gone and said everything I was gonna but more elegantly.

[Dev Emch]

Just to win Kirk's bet....

What Paul Cresti just said....

[Burt Waddell]

This thread was started from the perspective of safety. The specific cut was a dado cut in stock approximately 3" wide and 12" long. The dado was something like 2" deep. I was working on a job site so there was no shaper or appropriate jigs available. The ez guide with a smart clamp would have held the stock so the cut could have been made without any danger.

In my opinion, this is a great example of how we can use the inventions of Dino to our advantage. From a pure safety standpoint, we need to look for the best combination of tools. I use the EZ Smart stuff a lot but there is room for all types of equipment. I'm just trying to find the safest, easiest way to do things and that is also where Dino is headed.

[Lee DeRaud]

What is the best/right tool for cutting panels?
What is the best/right tool for straight line ripping?
What is the best /right tool for edge jointing a board?
What is the best /right tool for a compound cut. (tapered/bevel)
What is the best /right tool for mortising and tenons?
What is the best /right tool for dadoes?

Helpful hints:
1. If anyone thinks there is only one correct answer to each of those questions, they're wrong.
2. If anyone thinks there is only one correct answer to all of those questions, they're delusional.