The Basement Theater and Bar Construction Project

[Brad Rodgers]

Dan -
If you are serious about installing some acoustic treatments for your theater, you really should visit the www.avsforum.com forum. They have a sub-forum on Dedicated Home Theater Design and one of the "stickys" is specifically on accoustic treatments. Your room treatments will have much more of an effect on the quality of sound than the source components you choose. It truly is a remarkable difference.

[Bill Lewis]

Dan,
I assumed that all of your drains are already in place where you show them on the plan, is this correct? After scanning through your posts, I still wasn't sure if it is too late to re-arrange the bath and laundry, or wall off the utility area, and make a combined laundry and bath, maybe with a privacy closet for the toilet. just some random thoughts

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Great project Dan! When going through one room as in the laundry to get to the bathroom...it's an easier transition if you leave the bathroom light on and the laundry light off. Our bathroom and laundry room are the same room!

[Bill Lewis]

it's an easier transition if you leave the bathroom light on and the laundry light off.

Or put three way switching on the laundry room light.

Our bathroom and laundry room are the same room!

Yes, but Kelly were not talking about the great outdoors here!

[Dan Mages]

SWMBO had to study for her law school finals, so I did not do very much over the weekend on the basement. I will have to work hard on the basement this week to make up for it.

Good points on the stability of the washer/dryer cabinet.I think it would work well if I made a 2x4 frame for the washer and dryer to sit on. I can also divide the bottom drawer into two drawers for center supports.

Dan,
I assumed that all of your drains are already in place where you show them on the plan, is this correct? After scanning through your posts, I still wasn't sure if it is too late to re-arrange the bath and laundry, or wall off the utility area, and make a combined laundry and bath, maybe with a privacy closet for the toilet. just some random thoughts

You are right that the drains are all there. When they did the drain tile, I asked that they do not fill in concrete around the toilet flange so I can move it a bit so the head would not be buried 2" into the wall (slight problem so with a little sledgehammer work, I should be able to run a drainline for the washer. No room for a privacy closet for the toilet tho.

I got a quote on the rockwool insulation. It is made by Thermafiber and will cost $17.50 for 50sqft of 3.5" thick material. About twice the cost of fiberglass. They dont offer different thicknesses, so I will double up on the ceiling. Total cost for the insulation will be $595 plus $50 for delivery. Any other good companies to check out for rockwool?

Have a good one!

Dan

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Not sure what ya meant Bill, but our house is 105 years old...before multiple bathrooms and WAY before laundry rooms (but it is inside). If a 3-way works better for ya, then that's what you should do...

[Joe Gillis]

A couple of things that I recommend. Plastic wrap against the cinder block may not be the best thing to help as a vapor barrier.. Fine Homebuilding did a pretty good basement vapor barrier redo over the last 12 months or so. Instead of plastic, 4x8 Styrofoam insulation was laid directly against the block, "glued" on using foam insulation and seams taped. The logic is that condensation forms when the inside temperature and humidity of the block collide. The foam will allow evaporation but also reduce the temperature variance. The plastic vapor wrap I see in your pics will trap the condensation against the block and allow mold to grow.
Also No untreated wood comes in contact directly with the block or floor. The stud wall sandwiches the foam insulation between the studs and block. You stud out the wall normally and fill with fiberglass battens in addition to the 4x8 sheets of foam against the block.
The other big vapor wicking occurs through the floor. The article used similar 1 inch foam on the floor with 2 layers of 3/4" ply or osb on top. I do not recall any sleepers in the article but I have seen 2x PT material used on 24" centers. The thought again is no untreated wood against the concrete and a semi-permeable membrane ala foam insulation. If you can not afford to lose the head room. HD and others sell a product called dri-core. A 7/8" 2'x2' osb tongue and grove subfloor. It provides about a r3 insulation value but also gives you a substrate to carpet or use laminate floor . Additionally, dri-core contacts the concrete using a plastic waffle pattern which allows any water to flow “under the floor” to the drains. Just in case the washer or sink over flow.
<o> </o>
Do some more research using fine homebuilding. It sounds like you have great ideas on the finishing touches; a dry warm basement will make them a lot more usable.

[Bill Lewis]

Not sure what ya meant Bill

Just a very poor attempt at making a joke.

[Dan Mages]

A couple of things that I recommend. Plastic wrap against the cinder block may not be the best thing to help as a vapor barrier.. Fine Homebuilding did a pretty good basement vapor barrier redo over the last 12 months or so. Instead of plastic, 4x8 Styrofoam insulation was laid directly against the block, "glued" on using foam insulation and seams taped. The logic is that condensation forms when the inside temperature and humidity of the block collide. The foam will allow evaporation but also reduce the temperature variance. The plastic vapor wrap I see in your pics will trap the condensation against the block and allow mold to grow.
Also No untreated wood comes in contact directly with the block or floor. The stud wall sandwiches the foam insulation between the studs and block. You stud out the wall normally and fill with fiberglass battens in addition to the 4x8 sheets of foam against the block.
The other big vapor wicking occurs through the floor. The article used similar 1 inch foam on the floor with 2 layers of 3/4" ply or osb on top. I do not recall any sleepers in the article but I have seen 2x PT material used on 24" centers. The thought again is no untreated wood against the concrete and a semi-permeable membrane ala foam insulation. If you can not afford to lose the head room. HD and others sell a product called dri-core. A 7/8" 2'x2' osb tongue and grove subfloor. It provides about a r3 insulation value but also gives you a substrate to carpet or use laminate floor . Additionally, dri-core contacts the concrete using a plastic waffle pattern which allows any water to flow “under the floor” to the drains. Just in case the washer or sink over flow.
<o> </o>
Do some more research using fine homebuilding. It sounds like you have great ideas on the finishing touches; a dry warm basement will make them a lot more usable.

Per the reccomendation of my water proofer (see the thread listed on the first post, I am tacking the vapor barrier to the furring strip that was left over from the old panel wall that was in the basement. It is then left loose down the wall and then tucked into a special channel material seen below to allow any moisture that builds up to go into the drain tile. I am also using a special hydraulic water proofing paint from Zinsser that is supposed to have mold and mildew resistors in the blend. Hopefully, with this comination, I will not have to worry about any mildew growth.

I am not planning on using any type of subloor due to the 7.5' of head room and 6'8" around the air duct and I-Beam channel. I am thinking about using an engineered flooring or laminate flooring with a good insulated underlayment to protect against cold feet.

Progress update: I am about half caught up. The basement is completely cleaned out, the vapor barrier is up, and the wet wall is down. I will post more pics of the wet wall problems later... it does not look pretty.

Laters,

Dan

The plastic drain channel.

[James Mudler]

Dan - I sent you a PM

[Dan Mages]

James was once a home theatre designer and has kindly created some accoustical abosrbtion info for my basement. Thank you James!!

Dan

[Dan Mages]

When the sink is leaking and all esle fails...



Another one for the duct tape archives...

I found this wonderful gift beneath the basement bathroom sink when I moved in. The sink has been shut off since then, but I have not bothered removing it until now. The bad news is that the wonderfully intelligent people burried my copper water pipes, including the hot water pipes in the concrete. These pipes are pretty heavily corroded and will need to be redone. a bit of a blessing in disguise, but a delay in the project.

Dan

[James Mudler]

Did you get my mail? I have had several peoples mail bounce lately

[Dan Mages]

Did you get my mail? I have had several peoples mail bounce lately

James, Yes I did. Sorry for not getting back to you earlier.

Dan

This weekends plans: Nothing. I will be spending it in Milwaukee with LOML. I might have a chance on Sunday to put some time into the project. Have a good weekend!!

Dan

[Dan Mages]

So the work continues. I completed the patch job on the tile floor in the storage room (finally). I took a better look at the corrosion in the pipes and it is worse than I thought. I am going to have to pull out the blow torch and brush up on my plumbing. This will set me back a couple of days...

On a side note, I made a trip to a local store called HOBO. They tend to sell contractor's special grade junk, but usually have a good selection of wood and stone flooring. I started to drool when I saw the black granite they had on display which would be nice for the counter tops and the floor in the bar.I drooled even more when I saw bloodwood and brazilian cherry full thickness flooring for roughly $4 a sqft. I wish I had the chance to use that stuff in my basement!! They also had some hand planed white oak engineered flooring at around $5 per sqft which I think may be a good choice for the basement.

Fireplaces... the fireplaces I have seen so far start at around $2k and go up from there. I want to keep it around $1k or less, but I am not having much luck finding a nice one. Menard's sells a 32" model for $600, plus piping, venting, accessories, etc... probably $850 total. I am not thrilled with it, but it may be a last choice. Anyone know of a good fireplace in the 1k range?

Anyhow... that is it for tonight. Have a good one!!

Dan