A Question for Flat Tired Bandsaw Owners

[Bill Space]

Hi!


When I bought my 20" Davis and Wells bandsaw it had flat tires, but the previous owner was tracking the blade in the center of the wheels, which did not work well to say the least.

So I crowned the tires and the blade tracking suddenly became good, with the blade tracking on the center of the wheels.

Even though the manufacturer of this D&W bandsaw calls for crowned tires, my guess is that MAYBE I could have run the saw with flat tires, had I known at the time that flat tire bandsaws run the blades with the teeth hanging off the front of the tire.

This leads to my question:

On your flat tire bandsaws, do the blades run with equal amounts off the fronts of both tires? Or do the blades track differently on the tires? If there are differences, does the blade run with the teeth off one tire, but with the blade totally in contact with the other tire? Or???


Where is the blade positioned on your flat tires when you are happy with the setup?

This is a question driven by an interest I developed after buying the D&W.

Thanks for any experience given!

Bill

[Tom M King]

Off both equally on the Centauro 600. I've never had a small blade on that saw-only 1".

[Andrew Hughes]

On my saw the teeth hang off pretty equal. Here’s another blade position to check are the tips of the teeth square to the table. We all check the sides of the blade have you ever checked the tips.
The plot thickens with bandsaw mysteries
Almost forgot to mention my saw Agazzani B 20/20

[Van Huskey]

On all the saws I have and have seen they are very similar overhangs top and bottom, probably a very small difference but visually they look near identical.

[Bruce Page]

As above, the teeth run equally on my MM16.

[Edwin Santos]

The overhang is pretty much the same on top and bottom wheels on my Minimax s500P (MM20). This is typically when running a 1" Woodmaster CT blade which is my most used blade on that machine and yes, like the others, I run it with the teeth overhanging the front of the wheel.
However when running blades smaller than 3/4" on that particular saw, i.e. 1/2" or 3/8", I track in the center of the upper wheel and it works very reliably. I do find that as the blade gets smaller, they tend to track further forward of center on the lower wheel.

[Pat Barry]

My teeth run in the ribber of the flat wheels. I wouldn't think to have them run by overhanging the wheel. I kinda doubt that the thrust bearings and guides can move that far. This seems nonsensical.

[Mike Cutler]

Bill

Rikon 10-340.
Wheel rim width. 1-3/4".
Tire width. 1-1/2".
Blade width. 1" ( Lennox 2/3 Varipitch TrMaster.)
Front of tooth to edge of tire:
1/8 inch for top wheel.
3/16 inch for bottom wheel.
Blade is perpendicular to table in all directions.

The gullets on the TriMaster blade are quite deep. The blade, while being 1" wide front of tooth to back, is probably about 5/8" thick from the deepest part of the gullet to the back. The gullets on a TrMaster blade are not the same dimension, tooth to tooth.

This bandsaw bug has bitten you hard my friend. No worries though, I understand completely.
I'm not quite the bandsaw aficionado Van Huskey is, only because I don't have the space, but the bandsaw is, and always has been, my favorite wood working machine since i was tall enough to use one.
I have two table saws and both of them would go before my band saws. A table saw is easily replaced with other techniques and tools. No other machine can do what a band saw does.

[Bill Space]

Interesting information.

Looks like you flat tire bandsaw guys may experience less variability than the crowned tire guys.

It seems like flat tired bandsaws are mostly larger, higher end machines. Perhaps the build quality is reflected in what seems to be your consistent blade position/tracking.

Thanks for the feedback. Much appreciated!

[Bill Rhodus]

I have a saw in my shop that I run one inch bands on steel wheels (no tires) and the saw hangs off the front about the same for both wheels. this is the same approach used in the mill where I worked; saws up to 8" wide ran on flat wheels. My other saws run narrower bands on crowned, tired wheels and this approach appears to work well on narrow saws.

[Van Huskey]

My teeth run in the ribber of the flat wheels. I wouldn't think to have them run by overhanging the wheel. I kinda doubt that the thrust bearings and guides can move that far. This seems nonsensical.

Are you suggesting we all believe in fairies? Teeth off the front of the tire is just how most flat tired saws are designed to run. Otherwise, the teeth will chew up the tire, at some width thinner blades have to be run near the center of the tire usually that is about the 1/4" band area.

BTW what saw do you have?

[peter gagliardi]

Why do flat tired saws have their wheels chewed off if the blade rides back into the rubber, but the crowned tire saws do not?
IF the flat tire saws run better with teeth off the front, it is only because the set of the teeth change the blade dimension, and therefor the running dynamics over the flat wheel.
No blades should chew a tire, unless you are using the saw wrong.

[Van Huskey]

Why do flat tired saws have their wheels chewed off if the blade rides back into the rubber, but the crowned tire saws do not?
IF the flat tire saws run better with teeth off the front, it is only because the set of the teeth change the blade dimension, and therefor the running dynamics over the flat wheel.
No blades should chew a tire, unless you are using the saw wrong.

First, only set tooth blades change the blade dimensions, due to the manufacturing process of the set they are slightly shorter on the tooth side of the blade making them want to ride forward compared to a blade with no set.

I assume your thought process is that if the blade doesn't slide on the tire it can't cut into it. However, especially with carbide teeth, the constant pressing in and out of the side of the tooth acts as a die and cuts into the tire. Over time this will cause chunks to pop out. The worst case I ever saw was on a used Agazzani where it literally had a groove chunked out of it where the teeth had been riding, the owner never knew to move the blade forward and just tracked the blade where he had on his previous saw. The Agazzani has vulcanized tires so the durometer might be higher which MAY exacerbate the issue. Blades with set teeth aren't as bad. The difference for a crowned tire is the teeth either don't touch the tire at all or they have lower pressure when they do.

If you need a painful demonstration take a sharp circular saw blade and press it sideways really hard into your thigh. You could even see the difference between a high ATB blade and a triple chip grind so similar to the difference between a Resaw King and Trimaster. Theoretically, the RK will cause more tire damage than a Trimaster.

[Bill Space]

Edwin,

That is interesting. It seems to concur with others inasmuch that when running narrower blades on flat tire wheels they seem to move the tracking fully onto the tires...

My take on it anyway.

Bill

[Bill Space]

Pat,

As as I mentioned, when I bought the D&W 20” saw I did not realize flat tire bandsaws generally run their blades off the front of the tire.

The reason is that the overhang on the front of the wheel works the same on the blade as the crown does on a crowned tire.

BUT whatever works for you is not the debate here! Thanks for sharing your experience!

Bill