Educate me on Shapers

[David Kumm]

Time spent understanding RPC, Phase Perfect, or VFD is well spent. Rpc can be found cheap. Three phase is not a big deal to figure out and opens up a world of machinery that pays quickly for the RPC or VFD. Dave

[Joe Calhoon]

Patrick,
the PM 2700 looks a lot heavier than the delta’s and Powermatic’s I had way back. I built a lot of cabinet doors on those machines with no issues on the bearings. It’s when we started building house doors and using larger braised tooling that the bearings went fast.
You should be fine and as Dave mentions for home use you will not be doing heavy production.

[Van Huskey]

I also have a Klein insert head which is 131 x 90 x 31.75

Do you have a link to this? Never heard of Klein shaper tooling. Is it steel or aluminum? It is the only one that strikes me as a massive chunk of metal.

[Patrick McCarthy]

Van, i abbreviated a bit. The case says FreseKlein, and the website seems to be www.sistemiklein.com but it is in Pesaro, Italy . I bought it thru Greg at Rangate

[Patrick McCarthy]

DAve, Joe and Van,
thank you and Happy New Year

[Rod Sheridan]

Van, thank you for that post. I started this thread, excited that I may purchase a Shaper in the near future, but the last couple of pages leave me with the impression, that if I don't buy a commercial grade unit, with a new msrp north of $6K, I'm basically wasting my money.

I'm not in the income bracket where such tool is viable or necessary for my hobby, so this has been a good enlightening experience and I'll save money for wood and projects and keep using my router table.

Hi, used machines come up all the time and are worth waiting for. Going from a router table to a shaper will be a revelation for you.

Don't get discouraged, a shaper is worth investing in for a hobby user..............regards, Rod.

[brent stanley]

Patrick,
the PM 2700 looks a lot heavier than the delta’s and Powermatic’s I had way back. I built a lot of cabinet doors on those machines with no issues on the bearings. It’s when we started building house doors and using larger braised tooling that the bearings went fast.
You should be fine and as Dave mentions for home use you will not be doing heavy production.

I looked it up and it appears the insides match the outsides in this case. The 2700 uses two 6008 bearings whereas the 27 uses 6205s. That's quite a difference.

B

[brent stanley]

Van, i abbreviated a bit. The case says FreseKlein, and the website seems to be www.sistemiklein.com but it is in Pesaro, Italy . I bought it thru Greg at Rangate

That makes sense, much of the Rangate tooling is made in Italy by another company.

[David Kumm]

Load capacity of 6008 bearings are about 20-30% higher than 6205. I believe Felder uses 6009 in their 700 spindle cartridges. Dave

[Rod Sheridan]

Rod, I would really like to hear your recommendations on the tooling you just described. Currently looking at Whitehill combi head for my PM shaper....but I need some more tooling advice. Not trying to hijack the thread, I am sure it will be helpful to the OP too.
Thanks!

Happy New year Nick.

The first thing to do is to check the spindle RPM of your shaper to determine what tooling diameters you can run. Tooling speeds are in the range of 40 to 75 metres per second.

Below 40 the risk of kickback rises and above 75 tooling may fail from excessive speed, obviously the information supplied by the tooling manufacturer supercedes these guidelines.

Once you've determined what your minimum and maximum tooling diameters are for each speed you can start shopping for tooling.

Cutter Speed Chart.jpg

Brent has recommended a combination carbide rebate head and HSS knifeholder, it's a cost effective method of obtaining both tool heads in one package, if you're happy with removing the HSS knives and limiters when you want to use the rebate function.

I have a 125mm diameter X 50mm high carbide rebate head which I use for rebates, and pattern copying with a bearing. This is a frequently used head in a hobby shop.
Rebate.PNG

I also use a 40mm "Euro Block" for profiling solid wood. The knives and limiters are standard and are available from many sources, a pair of knives and limiters is under $50 and will produce more work with a higher finish quality than a router bit.

Euro Block.PNG

The last item that will get you started is an adjustable groover for cutting grooves and slots. I have 2 types, a stacked dado ( I share it with my saw as it's a 30mm bore) and I have a 2 part adjustable groover that I use for grooving and cutting both sides of a tenon in one pass.

Slotting cutter.PNGSlotting Profile.PNG

The above tooling is available from many vendors in your area.............Regards, Rod.

[brent stanley]

Load capacity of 6008 bearings are about 20-30% higher than 6205. I believe Felder uses 6009 in their 700 spindle cartridges. Dave

The 6008 bearings in that 5hp machine are 40x68x15 roughly, and I have a 2hp Wadkin shaper with roughly 38x82.6x19 bearings. Goes to show you can't always go by HP eh?

B

[David Kumm]

I don't know what bearings the Wadkin runs ( looks to be imperial ) but it goes to my point that bearings have been lightened up over the years. It is generally the depth or thickness that determines the load capacity due to the diameter of the balls. The Wadkin bearings probably have close to double the load capacity of the PM. Dave

[brent stanley]

I don't know what bearings the Wadkin runs ( looks to be imperial ) but it goes to my point that bearings have been lightened up over the years. It is generally the depth or thickness that determines the load capacity due to the diameter of the balls. The Wadkin bearings probably have close to double the load capacity of the PM. Dave

Hoffmann bearing, L13 V3. Really a Sagar machine from the 1950s. Wonderful small shaper.

[David Kumm]

Brent, very close to a 6208 in speed limits and capacities. The real deal for a machine that size. Sagar made wonderful machines. Dave

[lowell holmes]

https://www.harborfreight.com/1-hors...per-95668.html

Check it out.