Hi Ben, I would guess Joe's got $10k in cutters in his picture there!
Essentially what I was suggesting would be the equivalent of his Great Lakes insert head (second from back left), except it would have HSS knives ground exactly to your specs (if not available off the shelf) in a head that can be used for an infinite variety of other profiles. Just take your HSS knives out and put in new ones with any profile under the sun.
B
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Brent, actually just a little more than 1/2 that. I would like to see some pictures of how you are making square edge doors in your shop? We have made these almost daily for the last 40 years and have found the adjustable groover stacked heads for tenoning or coping is a good solution long term for shops that do a variety of work. And these heads are used for many other tasks as well.Originally Posted by brent stanley
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I don’t have near the experience of Joe and probably many hear but imop Ben Im in the adjustable groovers camp on this one.
As joe saiz the intimate adjustiblity coupled with a digital readout “I assume you have” and a pair of calipers and a note pad make them the perfect tool for the job and many many others. The knickers vrs braised tooling truly is all the selling point I need.
Plus they really are not all that expensive in the size you would need for the tongue and groove your looking to run. I know you said no to Rangate but they have a adjustable groovers with knicker and knives that can be changed out to put a bevel, chamfer, roundover whatever on your workpiece. Or you can take it off and get a square edge.
I understand people don’t want to spend for one project for insert cutters but in the case of the task at hand and the many uses of these cutters I think it’s well worth the Investment.
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The plus to using groovers and stacked rebate heads is they are useful for many other things. And the replacement inserts can be purchased anywhere. you don't have to send to Europe for cutters and matching limiters. A 15 to 30 adj can also be used for the tenon cut on some door thickness so for certain thickness one cutter can be used. To cover cabinet and house door square edge work you really need a couple ranges of groover. Early on we just used a couple of the Felder Z2 rebate heads that were on their Christmas sale for the stacked tenon- cope part.
Adj groovers and rebate heads are now pretty much a generic product and available in many price ranges. Yes, my Garniga and Zuani heads are top of the line and have many additional features but simple ones like Amana and others sell will do the job. If you do go dedicated heads I think the ones Freeborn makes are probably very nice and accurate. My experience with them in the past has been good.
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a table saw would do it
a shaper with a table saw blade would do it
a shaper with two table saw blade and a spacer would do it better once set up, yes you have one more to the shoulder
Anyone using Schmidt coping discs say the 9" ones with Corrugated? There are no you tubes on the fish net. No side cutters with that but the knife also bevelled cut on the side should work. I have cutters done that way not as good as the side spur but still worked fine. Id think you could cut a number of doors depending on the material before its getting dull and you can hone corrugated razor sharp easily.
Last edited by Warren Lake; 01-26-2019 at 3:59 PM.
Hi Joe, I would use one of my adjustable groovers and rebate block with a stub arbour to produce full length tenons followed by a trip to the mortiser. Depending on circumstances I might use double discs. However, what I would do is immaterial because we weren't asked about what WE would do......we were asked about single head solutions. And it's my understanding that the OP is not a commercial shop so cheap but effective is where I was thinking. It's my understanding that something akin to the Great Lakes head you showed a pic of is what we were asked to offer advice on, so that's why I am. It's my opinion that a euroblock with knives suited to he desired profile would be financially palatable, plus you'd own the euroblock for a million other potential uses down the line.
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Good morning fellows,
I'm quite pleased with the response this thread has generated. In my original post I mentioned the use of an adjustable groover and two 220mm tenon cutters and I see some of the professionals have a deeper commitment to them. I believe I even have a 300mm adjustable that I've only used a few times because I had to build a temporary hood for. I've used this setup a few times because of the lack of a dedicated cutter head as MIke suggested which I like because it takes a full cut of the face too, but I know if I mill my stock S4S which I always have I shouldn't have a problem with the adjustable groover and stacked or single tenon cutters. I suppose in the back of my mind I was thinking of a new cutter head that I thought I needed and may have wanted. Now I'm thinking you fellows are right and I have some good quality Leitz, Felder and Garniga cutters I should just use them. All good points about the knickers / side cutters. I agree, I have two of the Felder/Leitz dado heads and they work well.
But I'm not going to let the euro block thought go without some research. As I mentioned I have a small 40mm knife head I just might look into a 50mm. Possibly if I found a set of Freeborn cutter heads used at a good deal I might buy them. I look at a set of Felder door cutters I spent $1500.00 that have not gotten much use out of because it's a euro ogee style that I had to have one time that is why I'm hesitant to purchase another Rangate $2000.00 head or a $800.00 Freeborn. Great products I know but my use lately doesn't justify it.
I've been woodworking for 40 yrs but only as a semi pro and the past 5 yrs as a casual woodworker only taking on what I want. I once did a lot of work but never have I had to make a living at it like you fellows do day in and day out and that is why I enjoy asking questions and finding your opinions because you do do it everyday.
I like the fact that guys like Joe, Brent and David who are pros feel passion and a sense of community to help the rest of us out and for the other contributors who want to help out a fellow woodworker with your experiences.
Fellows I'll let you know what I end up doing, I'll be milling wood this week as it's getting cold here
Thank you all for your contribution to the thread. I think it's another thread to bookmark if someone needs advice for shapers.
Ben
sometimes it's people who no one imagines anything of who do the things that no one imagines. Alan Turing
That's what I would do Ben, the square edge work is what that kit is made for. I have note pads with magnets on them that I just stick to the side of the shaper with notes regarding common jobs etc. Notes specific to jobs are in client files. One appeal of having matched knives is there is less settup. Run one stock, take knives out, put in other knives and if you don't touch the spindle height, your next profile should line up perfectly depending on your coping system.
I use my machines commercially and I have euroblock, limiter heads (40mm, 55m, 65mm, and 100mm) to cover most of the spectrum for profiling and some serrated blocks for heavier work, but still limiter-style. The nice thing about the 55mm size is you can get both cope and stick profiles on one set of knives which saves a lot. And don't let the process of getting knives intimidate you....send an email and they're in the mail to you the next day and in your mailbox in a couple more if they're in stock.....your mailbox doesn't care where they came from. I do it all the time. Buying dedicated carbide just to have them sit on the shelf after the one and only job you'll ever use them for seems silly to me. I have lots of carbide kit for things like rebate blocks, groovers and operations often done in MDF but even with that I will sometimes just have the knives for my Euroblock tipped in Carbide. Just depends on how the math works out.....also helps if you have a crystal ball....I can't find mine.
Cheers and feel free to ask any questions you might have,
Brent
Last edited by brent stanley; 01-27-2019 at 12:16 PM.
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[OP]
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Hi Jared,
Where did you find the 50mm knives with 10mmx16mm? those I've not found.
sometimes it's people who no one imagines anything of who do the things that no one imagines. Alan Turing
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Are these the knives Ben?
Knife.PNG
They're from the Dimar catalogue.........Rod.
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I have the knives rod posted, I thought i had a 50mm square t&g set as well, but I don't see any listed from CMT.
[OP]
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Hi Rod,
No they are not, I was looking for a set of Craftsman style and Jared mentioned about the longer rebate of 16 mm that CMT sold. I see he was mistaken about them. And that's fine. 16mm would've been ok. a little deeper and a little more glue surface but we're good.
sometimes it's people who no one imagines anything of who do the things that no one imagines. Alan Turing
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Ben
you should check with Hot Knives in St Louis. They make custom knives for these in all sizes out of a better grade of 4mm steel. They have a water jet and do a good job on corrugated and I am sure these also.
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