Need some advice for staircase remodeling (part2)

[joe webb]

(continuing the old thread which seems have died. Please remove if this is not cool)

I stained all the wood and my wife finally has chosen the tiles to go on the risers. I am planning to install the straight section with the rectangular steps this weekend. Just to double check few things:

1) When cutting the back (long side) of the treads, we cut straight down (perpendicular) right? no need to tilt the blade by 5 degrees which seem to be the best practice for risers.
2) Use PL Premium or Titebond wood glue to attach the new oak treads to the current plywood treads?
3) Same question as #2 for flooring
4) Are 2" 18 gauge brad nails adequate to secure treads while the glue dries?
5) Given the stair nose (for the winders) has a 1.25" overhang, I plan to cut all tread depth to maintain that 1.25" overhang. Is that too much of overhang given I don't plan to use the cove moulding? I'd like the look of the cove moulding but I was not able to bend them enough to fit the curved steps.
6) I plan to put the treads in front of the riser because cutting a straight line in wood is easier than in tiles. But for the winders, I am not so sure given it is multiple pieces of adjacent flooring. What do you think?
7) The stair nose has a groove, but flooring only has a tongue&groove on the long side. I am planning to use my router to cut a tongue on the short side of the flooring to slide into the nosing. I thought it would make the connection more flush but not sure if that is worth to justify the additional work.

Thank you all again for helping me plan this out. Although I have already done a lot of work such as removing carpet, clean up the stairs, painting the side skirts, cutting the overhang, staining the wood, lots of measuring, etc... it feels like the exciting stuff is only about to start this weekend :-)

IMG_4154.jpg

[Paul Girouard]

(continuing the old thread which seems have died. Please remove if this is not cool)

I stained all the wood and my wife finally has chosen the tiles to go on the risers. I am planning to install the straight section with the rectangular steps this weekend. Just to double check few things:

1) When cutting the back (long side) of the treads, we cut straight down (perpendicular) right? no need to tilt the blade by 5 degrees which seem to be the best practice for risers.


Yes, as close to 90 degrees as possible across the tread, you’ll end up using a reciprocating/ Sawsall , or a multi tool to cut the last 3 or 4” on the end where a circular saw can’t run by the end.




2) Use PL Premium or Titebond wood glue to attach the new oak treads to the current plywood treads?

I’d use construction adhesive / sub floor adhesive/ liquid nails , rather than “wood glue”. Which brand, depends on where you live as to what is deemed “the best”.



3) Same question as #2 for flooring


Same answer , you could use a 3/8” notched trowel to spread the glue it both cases.



4) Are 2" 18 gauge brad nails adequate to secure treads while the glue dries?

I’d use a 15 gauge finish nail gun. But if your wood is flat / straight , the glue is doing 99% of the work , until it some how fractures. IF that ever does happen, and it does, just not frequently.

Oak can be a tough wood to get pulled down, I’d want the slightly larger fastener to suck things tight. Pre drilling a under sized hole and hand nailing would be even better , as nail guns tend to NOT pull things tight. And what you want is the wood your fastening down to the substrate as tight to that substrate as possible.







5) Given the stair nose (for the winders) has a 1.25" overhang, I plan to cut all tread depth to maintain that 1.25" overhang. Is that too much of overhang given I don't plan to use the cove moulding? I'd like the look of the cove moulding but I was not able to bend them enough to fit the curved steps.

Code says:



R311.5.3.3 Profile. The radius of curvature at the leading edge of the tread shall be no greater than 9/16 inch (14 mm). A nosing not less than 3⁄4 inch (19 mm) but not more than 1 1⁄4 inch (32 mm) shall be provided on stairways with solid risers. The greatest nosing projection shall not exceed the smallest nosing projection by more than 3/8 inch (9.5 mm) between two stories, including the nosing at the level of floors and landings, Beveling of nosing shall not exceed 1⁄2 inch (12.7 mm). Risers shall be vertical or sloped from the underside of the leading edge of the tread above at an angle not more than 30 degrees (0.51 rad) from the vertical. Open risers are permitted, provided that the opening between treads does note permit the passage of a 4-inch diameter (102 mm) sphere.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

SO the 1 1/4” puts you at max overhang, which is fine.
You could steam the Oak cove pretty easily to get it to bend, but that opens up another phase of the project to looking for “advice”.
#1: How do I make a steam box?
#2: Should I use tap water or distilled water?
#3: The list goes on>>>>>>>>>




6) I plan to put the treads in front of the riser because cutting a straight line in wood is easier than in tiles. But for the winders, I am not so sure given it is multiple pieces of adjacent flooring. What do you think?

The tiles should fit between the treads and NOT be trapped behind the lower tread.

You should use flexible grout caulk to create the grout line above and below the tiles , only the vertical joints should be actual tile grout.
You CAN get grout caulk with sand in the grout , so when it drys it looks like the grout , it’s sold in color matched to the grout you select.


7) The stair nose has a groove, but flooring only has a tongue&groove on the long side. I am planning to use my router to cut a tongue on the short side of the flooring to slide into the nosing. I thought it would make the connection more flush but not sure if that is worth to justify the additional work.


The flooring should run the same direction as the nosing , I all most ALL cases.



Thank you all again for helping me plan this out. Although I have already done a lot of work such as removing carpet, clean up the stairs, painting the side skirts, cutting the overhang, staining the wood, lots of measuring, etc... it feels like the exciting stuff is only about to start this weekend :-)

IMG_4154.jpg

Good luck !

[joe webb]

Thanks for the comprehensive reply Paul. Few more clarifications:

1) I was actually referring to the back of the new tread (the edge touching the riser). I think you are describing cutting the overhang of the current plywood tread. I already removed them w/ a jigsaw and chisel the ends.
5) I did try the steaming, but I was not bending the moulding while steaming. I bent it after pulling it out. But it kept flexing on its diagonal profile which is the thinnest. Given I have tile risers, the cove seems less important, so I gave up on steaming. I plan to keep all the nosing at 1 1/4" because that is how the stair noses are made. I was just wondering (from a cosmetic visual point of view) if that is too long w/o the cove.
6) I was told either way works fine. So I was just considering which way was easier to cut. Are there advantages of having the tile riser on top of the tread? I am afraid my treads might not be deep enough to go under the tile riser and still have a 1 1/4" nosing.
7) I visited several model homes around here, and I saw they have the flooring orthogonal to the nosing. I also thought it looked better that way. Are there advantages for running the flooring in the same direction as the nosing?

Cheers

[Paul Girouard]

Thanks for the comprehensive reply Paul. Few more clarifications:

1) I was actually referring to the back of the new tread (the edge touching the riser).

Normally you’d be glueing and fastening the riser to that edge of the tread , IF the joint was going to show.

That’s a connection the prone to squeaks , so the better the riser is attached to the back edge of the treads the better > less likely to squeak.

Seeing you are doing tile risers you could leave a 16” to weak 1/8” gap , that the tile would cover , thus reduce the squeak potential to zero.
Which is another good reason to place the tile BETWEEN the treads , rather than trapped behind the tread.








I think you are describing cutting the overhang of the current plywood tread. I already removed them w/ a jigsaw and chisel the ends.

Yes , that’s what I thought you where asking.



5) I did try the steaming, but I was not bending the moulding while steaming. I bent it after pulling it out. But it kept flexing on its diagonal profile which is the thinnest. Given I have tile risers, the cove seems less important, so I gave up on steaming. I plan to keep all the nosing at 1 1/4" because that is how the stair noses are made. I was just wondering (from a cosmetic visual point of view) if that is too long w/o the cove.


<<<<< I think 1 1/4” is to much over hang without the cove. It could lead to a trip hazard , our eyes tell our feet what to do on stairs without us really thinking.
I’d go no more than 1” of nosing without a trim of some sort under the tread.
As well as visually 1 1/4” over hang on a tread , to me , would be to much. On a fire place mantel I can see a 1 1/4” as a minimum over hang , I’d prolly like more like 2” or even more , IF the room and lower part of a mantel design would support it . But for a stair tread I’d go 1” max , if there where no under nosing cove , or other trim. >>>>




6) I was told either way works fine.

<<<<<< Wood moves , tile and grout do not. I could argue with who ever told you either way was fine, but I won’t , I’ll just leave it as wood moves , tile and grout don’t, the grout will crack.
You could do it your way and report back in a year to tell us whether I’m right or wrong .
But when working with wood , wood movement needs to be accounted for , cuz it’s going to move and affect any thing that’s attached to it, in some way. >>>>



So I was just considering which way was easier to cut.


<<<< Tile saws cut pretty clean line, the tile are smaller than the treads length. But it really comes down to a flexible separation product between the wood and tile.

Are there advantages of having the tile riser on top of the tread?

<<<< Flexible grout caulk>>>



I am afraid my treads might not be deep enough to go under the tile riser and still have a 1 1/4" nosing.


That would be a bonus, IMO , 1” is a better over hang for a stair tread without a cove or trim molding.


7) I visited several model homes around here, and I saw they have the flooring orthogonal to the nosing. I also thought it looked better that way.

It looks confusing to my eye.


Are there advantages for running the flooring in the same direction as the nosing?

Harmony to the eye.
You mentioned your flooring was not end matched , so it’s more work to create the tongue you’d need on the end grain of your flooring , which is Oak IIRC , odd that it’s not end matched? Fir flooring generally isn’t end matched , but Oak generally is , but that’s another matter.






Cheers

Good luck.