What is a subscriber based forum?

[Frederick Skelly]

I would pay if my students got a free ride. Exclusiveness venue? I’m teaching struggling woodworking newbies to try to survive. I bring a 24 case of water in my class once a week. I donate about $1000 a year to the same class.... food, wood, tools........In the end I make less Half minimum wage. But, I get kids off the street learning a trade and being useful to society. You can live up on your high horse, my life was just threatened today as I expelled a kid for intoxication and drug related activity. I guess there’s different strokes for different folks.

You can put up your blinders or security cameras, but every dollar you don’t make or stolen from you, remember I’m trying to turn these kids around.

Keep doing what you're doing Matt. I'm sure everyone respects that. I know I do.
Fred

[Jim Becker]

Matt, what you don't likely know is that there have been many cases where folks...like your students...who have little means but great need...have been extended "contributor" status by either grant or by some other community contributor paying the six bucks. I have personally funded multiple instances of this over the years, as a matter of fact. This is a community and there are many good folks who pass it forward all the time. I really, really, really don't understand why you are so adamant that the community should be "free" to access. Someone has to pay for the costs and the model that sustained things for many years is no longer financially viable for long term. Nothing is free. Somebody pays. The question here is "whom" will be paying going forward.

[Stewie Simpson]

Keep doing what you're doing Matt. I'm sure everyone respects that. I know I do.
Fred

Fred; why the recent change in disclosure of your membership status. !!!

Frederick Skelly

Deleted

[Matt Mattingley]

Matt, what you don't likely know is that there have been many cases where folks...like your students...who have little means but great need...have been extended "contributor" status by either grant or by some other community contributor paying the six bucks. I have personally funded multiple instances of this over the years, as a matter of fact. This is a community and there are many good folks who pass it forward all the time. I really, really, really don't understand why you are so adamant that the community should be "free" to access. Someone has to pay for the costs and the model that sustained things for many years is no longer financially viable for long term. Nothing is free. Somebody pays. The question here is "whom" will be paying going forward.

Can you please provide a link to the FinePrint restrictions/provisions. I would send this to you via pm..... I've never been adamant that any community should be free. Thank you for putting words in my mouth! This is a community currently. Any community has all sorts. a closed gate community has a fence around its perimeter. Those who are not permitted and those who are. You've described two different kinds of communities. From the sounds of it, it sounds like you're on the fence? Correct me if I'm wrong.

I do free admin on a forum similar to this, with absolutely no benefits. Yeah, it might be about 1/3 the size. Educational resources should not be restricted to just one area. Instagram, YouTube even Facebook… have found ways to keep their community running. I'm too old to care, but I'm Young enough to find reliable resources that are applicable.

This is not a vote situation. And nor should it be! This is a business just like a private golf course! But just like any private golf course, there are perks with each membership. I don't even mind paying $12 per year if my students would still have free access with the same respect.

The labeling is already integrated. Member, contributor, Friends of the Creek, moderator, administrator….....

I'm sure when the dust settles everybody will feel like they're on the same level here. Gentlemen will be gentlemen again in the gentleman's club.

[Matt Mattingley]

Keep doing what you're doing Matt. I'm sure everyone respects that. I know I do.
Fred

Thanks Frederick! I don't expect anybody to walk a day in my shoes. They probably quit like the 3 teachers before me. Burnout rate is pretty high, especially with the experienced old school elderly professors. I'm in my mid 40s, retired, and doing this as I give back to my community. Last semester this class was shut down on bureaucracy. Too many hands in one pot all looking for monetary gain. At the end of the day, only the ones wanting to learn got hurt.

[Keith Outten]

If I sell our email list one time per year we can pay all of the bills and continue free access. Once the list is sold it will no doubt be sold over and over again by the first purchaser. If I sell the list several times per year and give it to all of our advertisers I will be looking for a contractor to build me a custom home.

Allowing data mining is pretty lucrative which is just one of the ways that some of the big sites make money, unfortunately I promised I would never sell anyone's information here. No doubt I could also have a programmer setup an abusive script that automatically attaches to every single picture posted here. With over 25 gigabytes of pictures that would surely be a lucrative feature because everyone here loves pictures.

I have another company who is interested in buying SawMill Creek, got the first email from them last night. Note that if I sold The Creek all of the promises I have made will be null and void.

SawMill Creek was created to provide a special place, different from all the rest based on Community trust and support. I have never tried to monetize our Community beyond the few sponsors we have been able to attract to help pay the bills and the majority here approved of that change to our original system in 2005.

Years ago we did an annual fund drive in November of each year and I got tired of the negative feedback and derogatory names directed my way. We asked for donations in every forum for just 30 days and then all of the threads were removed. On almost every woodworking forum on the Internet I have been called just about every name you can imagine, once I was referred to as a Nazi which is probably as bad as it can get.

I'm sorry that the Internet is changing but its not my fault and I am dealing with the situation the best I can. Please lets forget about how everything on the Internet is supposed to be free, that scenario is changing because 90% of the people are blocking advertising. The handwriting is on the wall, if you refuse to read it there isn't much I can do about that. I think we have beat this dead horse to death but please let me know if you have an suggestions that might change our current course.
.

[michael langman]

No need to apologise to me Keith. Thank You for taking the moral road and protecting us from the onslaught of the internet.

[ken seale]

I say sell out while you still can. Charging $24/year will be the end of this joint. Enjoy the profit on the sale (100% as you paid nothing to the previous owner) and go your merry way. This place needs new blood anyway. Maybe the new owners will be able to keep this as an open source. If not, there are plenty of other places around.

I wish the best of luck to all.

[Keith Outten]

Ken, eleven years here with only 63 posts, based on your level of contribution here some new blood is a good thing.
I started SawMill Creek from scratch so there wasn't a previous owner.
Open Source is a term used to identify a special type of software. I think you mean maintain a free service, you should open a forum it would be a challenge you would surely enjoy.
There are lots of woodworking forums available that you can join that are free, I'm always baffled when people complain about The Creek when there are so many other places they can be.

[Jon Nuckles]

Way to go, Keith. You have been very patient with people who have enjoyed something for nothing for a long time and are in a huff that they are being asked to pay a small amount to continue to participate. I hope that the majority see past their egos or “principles” and become contributors. Six bucks, people!

[Barry McFadden]

I say sell out while you still can. Charging $24/year will be the end of this joint. Enjoy the profit on the sale (100% as you paid nothing to the previous owner) and go your merry way. This place needs new blood anyway. Maybe the new owners will be able to keep this as an open source. If not, there are plenty of other places around.

I wish the best of luck to all.

Freeloaders like you we don't need!!!!!!

[Frederick Skelly]

If not, there are plenty of other places around.

Then please go find them.


The people I will miss are those who selflessly helped me whenever I needed it, again and again and again. It saddens me that some of them won't follow the site after it becomes subscriber-based.

In contrast, I googled your SMC posts Ken. I found several where you answered questions by referring people to an ebay seller called "nicobie". For example, see post 8 at this LINK. Or post 2 at this LINK. Then I found a 2019 post where you brag about having been an ebay seller named "nicobie". See post 6 at this LINK.

So even what little you did here was mostly self-serving.

[Matt Mattingley]

Then please go find them.


The people I will miss are those who selflessly helped me whenever I needed it, again and again and again. It saddens me that some of them won't follow the site after it becomes subscriber-based.

In contrast, I googled your SMC posts Ken. I found several where you answered questions by referring people to an ebay seller called "nicobie". For example, see post 8 at this LINK. Or post 2 at this LINK. Then I found a 2019 post where you brag about having been an ebay seller named "nicobie". See post 6 at this LINK.

So even what little you did here was mostly self-serving.

Your post is radical on the majority of members. I've helped out dozens of member (and contributors on this site) and others. With no collusion. The funny thing is I used to use this site for, educating starving students... to get them off the street. If I held a platform to direct every single person or student I helped out, out of the goodness of my heart, you would be challenged on the responses... I get it, you're better than me.. You want me to go away.. You're awesome!

Taking one day of your week (with no pay with no pay), and go help out high school students learn woodworking, that are on social services. And then give me your link. Then discredit anybody you wish. I'm sure you're a good guy. I need about 20 more of you with the same dedication... Make courses like like mine viable... It's 30 days a year.... In the end it is fun and rewording>

[Frederick Skelly]

Your post is radical on the majority of members. I've helped out dozens of member (and contributors on this site) and others. With no collusion. The funny thing is I used to use this site for, educating starving students... to get them off the street. If I held a platform to direct every single person or student I helped out, out of the goodness of my heart, you would be challenged on the responses... I get it, you're better than me.. You want me to go away.. You're awesome!

Taking one day of your week (with no pay with no pay), and go help out high school students learn woodworking, that are on social services. And then give me your link. Then discredit anybody you wish. I'm sure you're a good guy. I need about 20 more of you with the same dedication... Make courses like like mine viable... It's 30 days a year.... In the end it is fun and rewording>

I meant nothing like the way my post came across to you Matt.

I was thinking of you specifically, and others who have gone out of their way to help me here, when I wrote these words: "The people I will miss are those who selflessly helped me whenever I needed it, again and again and again. It saddens me that some of them won't follow the site after it becomes subscriber-based."

I have never endorsed the view that "Members" aren't contributing here. I know better. For example, last year I had to replace bearings on a bandsaw. I had no clue. But people I never heard of before (two "Members" in particular) stepped in and helped me get it done. And I know you always help. The first time I heard of you personally, was when someone mentioned that "Matt Matt" had helped them on a power converter (VFD?), and I asked who "Matt Matt" was. It's you and folks like you I will miss if you don't stay on when SMC goes subscription only.

I hold no truck with people who complain regularly but help little - here or elsewhere. Especially when they throw nasty little jags on the way out the door as was done in post #128.

I appreciate what you do, here and on the streets. I do my share of volunteer work too.

Fred

[Sam Murdoch]

Matt Mattingley, I applaud your giving of yourself to your community but alas, you have made it abundantly clear that you are unhappy with the direction that this community is taking. Rather than adding your attitude snipe to every thread you post in (3 this morning, that I have read) about all the other "free" woodworking web sites available - please just set yourself free and go away. Why do you continue here feeling as you do?

As for "members" not being able to afford 50¢ a month or even $2.00 a month to become full fledged contributors and keep this TREASURE of a woodworking resource available simply does not pass the straight face test. No one who can afford to be in woodworking or other tool based crafts, as a hobby - let alone a business, can say with a straight face that they can't swing an extra 50¢ per month for the invaluable TOOL that is Sawmill Creek.

The only pass I might give would be to legitimate students of the trades. Everyone here could choose, if they cared, to be a contributor without making compromise to their economic status. We make these and compromises every day. I have been through bankruptcy so you don't need to tell me about financial struggles. I have not been homeless and I have not been truly unemployed (since my early 20s) though I know and see this reality around me everyday. These are not the people who are on Sawmill Creek being asked to send in their 50¢. A two or three month free trial period would be logical but after that becoming a contributor, seems to me just as logical.

Sam