Secondary/relief bevel

[Thomas Wilson80]

I’ve heard about grinding a secondary bevel on YouTube a lot and read about it on this site here and there, but have never tried grinding off the heel of my gouges yet. I’m curious how many of you do it, and when (I.e. only detail gouges vs bowl gouges vs all).

Is there any reason not to do it (increased vibration) and when grinding, is there any special way or is it as simple as just moving the jig arm in a bit and grinding away.

Thanks,
Tom

[Bill Boehme]

I’ve heard about grinding a secondary bevel on YouTube a lot and read about it on this site here and there, but have never tried grinding off the heel of my gouges yet. I’m curious how many of you do it, and when (I.e. only detail gouges vs bowl gouges vs all).

Is there any reason not to do it (increased vibration) and when grinding, is there any special way or is it as simple as just moving the jig arm in a bit and grinding away.

Thanks,
Tom

A reason for grinding the heel of the bevel would be to reduce heel bruising where there is a tight curve. A reason to not grind the heel of the bevel might be situations where you use a diamond hone to freshen the cutting edge a few times before going back to the grinder. With a shortened bevel it's harder to maintain proper bevel contact with the diamond hone. The amount of metal removed when grinding the heel is very small and has no effect on tool behavior.

[Jeffrey J Smith]

I grind a secondary bevel on bowl gouges - do the initial sharpening, then add a 1/2” mdf spacer to the pocket of the wolverine jig and grind the same way. That gets a secondary bevel just below the main bevel. Only need to do this every 4th or 5th trip to the grinder - I just touch up the main bevel as necessary most of the time. The secondary bevel is slight - leaving the main bevel about 1/16 or 3/32” wide.
I’ve got two spacers - 1/2” and 3/4”. On initial grinding of a new gouge I use both spacers then round off the remaining heel slightly free hand to relieve it. Seldom need to refresh all the bevels and the heel. The grinder has cbn wheels so the pocket seldom needs to move...just check it with a template now and again.
Using the spacers, the same could be done with spindle gouges. I don’t, but it would work the same. I do relieve and round the heel freehand, though.

[Reed Gray]

This is very common with bowl gouges, and less common with other tools. I do use it on my scrapers as well, but mostly to make grinding easier and faster. It does help prevent bruising from the sharp edge of the heel of the bevel on the inside of a bowl, or on any concave surface. It also makes it fit better in a curve as it puts the bevel rubbing spot closer to the cutting edge, which makes tool control easier. While it doesn't contribute to easier cuts on a convex surface, like the outside of a bowl, I still do it to my 40/40 grind gouges. I do it by hand. Most of the time I grind away over half of the bevel, and make it round rather than a second bevel. This is simple to do free hand. I wouldn't use it on a skew chisel, other than one with a convex grind.

robo hippy

[John K Jordan]

I’ve heard about grinding a secondary bevel on YouTube a lot and read about it on this site here and there, but have never tried grinding off the heel of my gouges yet. I’m curious how many of you do it, and when (I.e. only detail gouges vs bowl gouges vs all).

Is there any reason not to do it (increased vibration) and when grinding, is there any special way or is it as simple as just moving the jig arm in a bit and grinding away.

Thanks,
Tom

I always put a secondary "bevel" on bowl and spindle gouges, sometimes skews, and to remove the heel on Hunter tools. I say "bevel" since I do more than grind a flat bevel - I round the heel of the bevel and then polish it. This prevents burnishing from heel contact and provides more clearance for tighter places.

Rounding is easy with the Tormek gouge jig (support for the heel bevel or rounding is built into the SVG-180/186 jig), not hard with the Wolverine/Varigrind gig, and not a problem by hand with some practice. Some people put a small wood block in the v-support on the wolverine to move the jig forward and increase the angle a bit. Several sizes of blocks can make several small bevels. I find it easy enough to just slide the jig forward and back in the v while rotating the jig, especially with the Tormek jig.

For an extreme example of a rounded heal, look at this (poor) photo I took of the gouge Chris Ramsey used when turning the inside of a cowboy hat. He grinds the tool by hand with just a tool rest on the grinder, no jig. Took him less than 30 seconds. Most of the heal is rounded, the only ground bevel at the cutting edge is about 1/16" wide. I highlighted it for emphasis. I ground a bowl gouge like that and it works very well. (Using this you don't "rub the bevel" but then you really shouldn't anyway with any type of grind, assuming good tool control)

Chris Ramsey's bowl gouge
Ramsey_gouge_comp.jpg

JKJ

[Thomas Wilson80]

Thanks for all the replies and info. It sounds like I need to try this.
Thanks,Tom