Anything better than Lie-Nielsen?

[Jim Koepke]

Jim might be on to something with "...one of those things some feel and others do not..."! Maybe if we have a peak of some of the advertising of that era? Maybe the Bailey line meant for house builders? Maybe the Bedrock line for cabinet/furniture makers? Different timbers, perhaps?

Tony,

Doubtful, most likely sizzle vs. steak. I'm not sure but no Mr.Bailey.

ken

My first #7 was from a man who worked in a cabinet shop. It was a Bailey style type 11.

My thought is the differences between those who bought Bailey and who bought Bedrock was more of personality or intellectual trait than a working need. Some buyers were surely swayed by the promotional literature. It is similar to why some buy Ford and some buy GM or Chrysler.

More than once my preference for the appearance of the rounded sides of a Bailey plane as opposed to the flat top sides of a Bedrock plane has been stated. There are likely just as many who look at the flat top sides of the later Bedrock models and say, "yeah, that's for me."

jtk

[Bob Jones 5443]

The flat top design of the Bed Rock sides seems to offer more bearing surface for shooting. Plus, there’s the hype/halo effect bestowed on the Bed Rock by Tom Lie-Nielsen’s decision to base his contemporary high-quality planes on them, reinforced now by Rob Cosman and the WoodRiver brand. So: one real benefit and one imaginary one.

[John Makar]

How could they be improved... A repeat buyer/customer loyalty reward program. Retroactive, including the frencie nails I bought last year.

[Aaron Rosenthal]

My late uncle was a master cabinetmaker and teacher in the Los Angeles school system. I visited his home workshop every time I went down there.
I can’t remember ever seeing a Bedrock style plane there.

[Chris Fournier]

I think that LN nails the "value" target where quality and performance make them worth the price. I drooled over Some of those uber expensive planes as I really admired and lusted after the craftsmanship and finished product. I'd also like a Vincent Black Lightning reproduction... When I do my part to set up my LN for the task and make sure that it is as sharp as I am able to produce I have never been left wanting, the job gets done every time. Spending more money than I have on LNs would be a waste from a purely practical standpoint. And I do enjoy their presence and quality! I have sent two LN planes back over the years for deficiencies and one had been in my possession for years (out of square Low Angle Jack). In both cases LN treatment was beyond courteous, fair and fast. I have recently acquired a CNC milling machine and would like to make my own English style smoother for the challenge.

[Mike Allen1010]

Posted a link to this discussion on the audio forum I regularly visit, Audio Asylum, under the headline "I really get a kick out of the similarities between all hobby equipment forums".

One reply there,"My Stanley Planes sound better after 30 minutes".

Hysterical! maybe there's some vacuum tubes hidden in there that need a little warm up!

[Mike Allen1010]

Oh boy this thread is interesting! I tried to stay away but can't resist.

For context, I confess hand planes are my favorite woodworking tool and my holy Grail is that "ultimate" smoother that will peel off microscopically thin shavings off curley maple/difficult grained woods and leave a shimmering, tearout free surface. In fact, when people ask me why I prefer woodworking with hand tools, one of my favorite demos is to hand plane a piece of wood and sand half of it with the finest grain sandpaper I have and then ask which side they think looks better? Never fails to impress!

I in my quest for the holy Grail also confess I've acquired lots of planes including tuned up Stanley's with aftermarket blades, Lee Valley, Lie Nielsen and original and reproduction infill planes. Holtley, Carter and other boutique infill makers are out of my price range, but if I won the lottery I'd be first in Line!

All that said, I think woodworkers are incredibly blessed to have quality firms like LV, and LN producing broadly available, high-quality tools today. When I started working in the late 1970s, after being inspired by reading Jame Krenov's "cabinetmakers notebook", I almost quit immediately because with the hardware store plane I had on hand at the time I couldn't even take a decent shaving, much less achieve the finished surfaces I was aspiring to. Today that's no longer a problem, with just a little bit of knowledge and preparation you can make an LV/LN tool work like a charm right out of the box.

As much as I fuss over and love my metal planes (I have a Norris #5 that's a bear to sharpen and adjust, but when it's right – kind of magic!), Over the last five years I've increasingly reached for my wooden planes. For example, my Steve Voigt Jack and coffin smoother produce efforts effortlessly produce full with shavings that shoot out of the top of the plane like magic for their intended purposes. Why do they work so well? I have no idea. I do think given the tight tolerances etc. good performing planes are great example of "the whole being greater than the sum of the parts". It's not just quality components/materials, but how well they're all fitted together to produce the final product that counts for that infinitesimal 5% of maximum performance were all looking for.

Okay, I realize I didn't really add anything to this discussion, but I do appreciate the opportunity to share my opinions on the subject were all passionate about – hand planes!

Cheers, here's to the plane makers that bring so much joy to our hobby!

Mike

[steven c newman]

Millers Falls #709 and the #714.....IF you can find them..

[Jim Koepke]

Okay, I realize I didn't really add anything to this discussion, but I do appreciate the opportunity to share my opinions on the subject were all passionate about – hand planes!

But Mike, it was an enjoyable read.

jtk

[Tony Zaffuto]

Millers Falls #709 and the #714.....IF you can find them..

I agree on the 709, but until I wrestle the 714 from your hands, I cannot comment!

[steven c newman]

I'm still looking for the Vaughn & Bushnell planes that were made like the Bedrocks....#900 series, I think? They were also Drop Forged....

[steven c newman]

Hmmm...when one makes a knock-off of someone else's designs for a plane...90% of the "design work" has already been done for them.....all they have to do is figure a way to use it....like how to machine it.

[Rafael Herrera]

Any designer or engineer builds from the work of his/her predecessors, they copy and sometimes improve on previous work. That is how we make progress, we stand on the shoulders of those that came before us. To label contemporary work as knock-offs does not make sense. The Bailey or Bed Rock designs are not the ultimate in wood planing, that no improvement can be made on them; they built from previous work and one could argue that their works were knock-offs using the same opinion of some here in this thread. The first neanderthal that used a sharp piece of rock or volcanic glass to sharpen a stick deserves all the credit, everything else that came after are knock-offs.

[Tony Zaffuto]

I'm still looking for the Vaughn & Bushnell planes that were made like the Bedrocks....#900 series, I think? They were also Drop Forged....

I've passed on a couple. I have plenty of Baileys, a few Bedrocks, quite a few LN and LV, but for my money, give me a MF any day, with the 2 piece lever-lock. Frog has a blade bearing surface similar to Bedrocks, with excellent bedding to the sole. Fairly inexpensive, even on Ebay. Out in the wild, they're cheap!

[Mike Henderson]

I'm still looking for the Vaughn & Bushnell planes that were made like the Bedrocks....#900 series, I think? They were also Drop Forged....

I have a number of V&B planes. They are like the early round top Bedrocks but with flat tops. A big advantage of them is that the body is steel and not cast iron so they don't break if one falls off your bench onto a concrete floor. I lost a really nice Bailey #4 type 11 that way. I brazed the break but it was never the same.

I'm not an expert on V&B planes by any means but they made a 700 version and an 800 version as well as the 900 version. The 900 version is definitely the premium product. I forget what the differences are between them.

Mike