What Makes Post WWII Stanleys so Bad?

[Jim Koepke]

I'm still curious as to what is actually different? Jim pointed out knobs and frogs. So is it just that (as in the case of the frog) the end user needs to do more tuning (filing the frog)? Or are the tolerances on everything "looser"... less square, less flat?

With some it seems the tolerances went out the window. Some of the later planes that have come through my shop didn't have the base of the frog machined square. The frog could be seen to be out of square to the base.

If there was something the makers of planes could be do to cut the cost, it was done.

There are not many complaints about pre-WWII planes being of poor quality, being difficult or impossible to get working properly. There are many good planes in the post WWII years. There are also a higher percentage of dogs from after WWII.

jtk

[Mel Fulks]

I've always thought that the war took a lot of young guys out of their parents houses. With the war over the search for
babes was full on. That takes a job. And a lot of houses were going to be needed. That took planes.

[Robert Engel]

Erich,

If you check Patrick's Blood and Gore site, he has a lot of excellent history on Stanleys, as well as how to identify and details of lots of less common planes.

The "Stanley downgrade", as many call it, started in the 50's when the post WWII market of amateur carpenter/homeowners & hobbyist woodworkers began to rise. I think most of it has to do with castings and the quality of metal in the irons. This is why everyone says buy a pre-WWII plane.

The homeowner market drove it all. Radial arm saws became the rage. One machine in someones garage that was advertised to everything. If you've ever seen some of the commercials for radial arm saws they are really a hoot. Same thing with ShopSmith.

The same phenomenon has occurs with other brands. Having owned a Craftsman table saw many years ago, I can't begin to tell you how poorly the 60's models were made. Same with Black and Decker and Porter Cable, but that was from corporate buyouts by huge umbrella congomerates.

I have a Black and Decker circular saw that I bought in the early 80's. I remember I paid about $120 for it. The base is almost 1/4" thick and the height adjustment goes straight up and down rather than hinged. I is extremely accurate and obviously very durable.

That said, I also had a B&D router probably an 80's model that was a total POJ. That's what happens with a company decides to specialize in toasters, griddles, and kitchen beaters?

You can't go wrong with the WoodRiver planes, made in China or not......

[Jim Koepke]

I've always thought that the war took a lot of young guys out of their parents houses. With the war over the search for
babes was full on. That takes a job. And a lot of houses were going to be needed. That took planes.

My previous residence was in a large tract of homes built in 1942 & 1943. There were thousands of homes built in the San Francisco bay area at the time to house workers in the new ship yards that sprung up for the war effort. This happened in many areas of America for production of many different things needed during the war.

At the end of the war there was surplus housing in some of these areas.

Kind of a funny turn around in my area. One tract of 'war housing' apartments was demolished to make a shopping area in the late 1950s - early 1960s. Latter a mall was built that drained some of the retailers from the shopping center. In the 1980s much of the shopping center was demolished to build condos.

jtk

[Nicholas Lawrence]

I'm still curious as to what is actually different? Jim pointed out knobs and frogs. So is it just that (as in the case of the frog) the end user needs to do more tuning (filing the frog)? Or are the tolerances on everything "looser"... less square, less flat?

Some postwar planes are fine. As a general rule of thumb though, it is true that your odds are better with something before the war (except on eBay, where you never know who did what to it when).

You have to remember, that a lot of the "buy this, not that" pieces were written decades ago. When people were buying truckloads of tools for scrap value, they could afford to be choosy. Why buy my war economy No. 3, with a plastic adjusting knob (bought by my grandfather when he came home from the war), when you could buy a pre-war plane just as easy? The truth is that the prewar plane is a lot prettier, and if you could have both just as easily, why not pick the one that looks better as long as they both work just as well. Supply and demand has changed since then, and there just are not as many unclaimed old tools floating around.

It is easier to see if you look at saws. Look at a 1930s Disston, or the "Victory" saws they put out right after the war. Then compare them to what was being sold with the Disston name in 1950 or 1960. As Steve Newman mentioned, every corner has been cut and every effort has been made to make a beautiful tool ugly. The handles were once hardwood, and carefully shaped to fit the hand. By the 60s the handles from the major makers are plastic or plywood and the sharp edges are barely even relieved. The wonderful logos that were etched on the blade are gone, and you have what looks like the product of a child's stencil set.

[Jerry Olexa]

The war had a major impact on this... Shortages of key ingredients happened and then later, the evil mass production...Basically, the older ones were better: more attention to detail and quality.. The current ones are OK but the older ones, better IMHO...

[Stew Denton]

Hi All,

There was another factor as well. After WWII was over, there was tremendous destruction all over the world. In this country, in 3 or 4 years the baby boom underway full steam ahead. Thus there was a big demand for new housing. At the same time, a big portion of industry all over the world had been destroyed, so most of the American companies hand tool competition from the rest of the world was gone.

Thus the demand for hand tools which were needed to rebuild the housing, public buildings, and industry became tremendous. My understanding was that companies like Stanley and Disston, etc. could sell almost everything that they could make. I am sure that at first the companies kept the same standards that they had pre-war, but within a small number of years they realized that it did not matter because almost all of their competitions had been wiped out by the war and it became "whoa Nelly bar the door," and to increase production to meet the demand they began to cut corners to increase the production rate. This trend became a flood. Since quality was not the driving force it had been management also started cutting costs any way they could, and of course that was another factor explaining why quality suffered after WWII.

That said, with the hand tools I have seen, and other manufactured products as well, the quality started to dive more after about 1950, but my perception could be wrong. Finally about 1960, or very shortly after that, quality went into free fall. The times had changed, but the approach of upper management had not...they kept using the same approach that had worked for the first 10 or 15 years right after WWII, only in spades.

Regards,

Stew