New Lathe, Several Questions, help please

[Chris DiCiaccio]

My how things change quickly. I just posted a few days ago to get you Turners to show some of your combo lathe/flatwork pics. In the post I said that I was not a Turner. I'm still not, but I just got my first lathe, the new Rikon Mini. Got the lathe, a matching stand, face shield, and a six piece turning set of tools by Sorby. Just got the lathe set up today. I'm off tomorrow and would like to try it. Haven't turned it on yet. I do not yet have a way to sharpen the new tools that I just got. Here are a couple of questions:

1-Are these tools ok to use out of the box or should I wait until I get a sharpening system and sharpen them first?

2-What sharpening system do you recommend?

3-The spur center and the live center are almost perfect with each other, but off by maybe a 64th. How critical is this and if necessary, how to adjust?

4-In order to position the lathe in the best place in my shop, where should I expect most of the shaving, etc to land in relation to the footprint of the lathe?

I'm sure there will be more quesions. Thanks for any information on the above.

[Andy Hoyt]

All right, Chris! You don't waste time, huh?

Here's my take on the answers.

1 - Probably not. They may feel sharp, but in all liklihood they'll get useless in a couple of minutes. So yes, get yourself set up with a sharpening rig.

2 - I'd go with Woodcraft's slow speed 8" grinder and Oneway's Wolverine system. My guess is that combined this is another $200 or so. It can get fancier beyond this, but I see this as the bare essentials.

3 - Fuhgeddaboudit. It's fine.

4 - The shavings will end up absolutely everywhere. There's no such thing as sacred ground here. They go down, up, over, under, acroos ways, and into. This said, I know a guy that can hit a coffee cup at 20 paces in any direction.

[John Hart]

Snagged a nuther one!! That's great Chris!! I agree with everything that Andy said.

Sheesh...Did I just say what I thought I just said???

[Jim Becker]

1-Are these tools ok to use out of the box or should I wait until I get a sharpening system and sharpen them first?

They might "work" for a bit, but they will not be sharp out of the box. You need to at least hone the edges. You can use a slip stone for that, but it is likely they will not perform well until actually sharpened at the grinder. And many tools direct from the store are poorly done relative to bevel angles, etc. Some adjustment may be necessary Most are spindle work oriented, too...but that's a good way to get started getting used to handling the tools and the process, anyway.

2-What sharpening system do you recommend?

Best value for a grinder is the Woodcraft slow-speed 8" grinder...it already comes with the correct kind of wheels. The OneWay Wolverine guide system is also what I generally recommend, although you could build something similar. Even the pros use sharpening jigs...it brings consistancy which is a good thing.

3-The spur center and the live center are almost perfect with each other, but off by maybe a 64th. How critical is this and if necessary, how to adjust?

It is very critical. The centers should be virtually "dead-on" for best results. Otherwise, you'll have vibration and trouble making things actually round. Adjustment may require shimming the headstock or shimming the base, depending on how it is mounted. I'm not familiar with that particular lathe, so perhaps some of the recent new owners will have some ideas for you...it's new to the market. I do see Andy disagrees with me, but I have found over time that spindle centers that are in alignment are so much more enjoyable to work with...

4-In order to position the lathe in the best place in my shop, where should I expect most of the shaving, etc to land in relation to the footprint of the lathe?

On you. On the floor. Chips and shavings go virtually in all directions when one is turning...the orientation of the tooling is constantly changing and for that reason, there is no one direction they will fly. For the kind of work I generally do (bowls and vessels), a healthy portion of the cuttings from the gouge extit the tool towards me, skewed to the left of right, depending on the particular cut. When hollowing a bowl, most of my shavings head more to the right-rear of the machine.

Welcome to the addiction!!

[Richard Allen]

Congradulations on the new lathe!!!!

1. You will not hurt the tools fresh out of the box. You might even be ableto turn wood for a few hours before the tools should be sharpened.

2. 8" half speed grinder (the one from WoodCraft is fine) and the Oneway Wolvorine Grinding Jig and Vara-grind jig. You will also need a diamond wheel dresser.

3. That should be fine.

4. The majority of the waste will land within 10' for the lathe. I find that the headstock tends to get in the way of the shavings and so that forms somewhat of a "shadow" where the shavings are less likely to land. You can direct the shavings a little but there is enought to worry about without thinking about where the shaveings are going to land.

Have FUN!!! I know you will.

[Corey Hallagan]

Congrats on the new purchase. Good questions, it has become clear I need those two critical items very soon! Have fun, be safe!

Corey

[Andy Hoyt]

..... It is very critical. The centers should be virtually "dead-on" for best results. Otherwise, you'll have vibration and trouble making things actually round. Adjustment may require shimming the headstock or shimming the base, depending on how it is mounted. I'm not familiar with that particular lathe, so perhaps some of the recent new owners will have some ideas for you...it's new to the market. I do see Andy disagrees with me, but I have found over time that spindle centers that are in alignment are so much more enjoyable to work with..

File this in the For What it's Worth Department

Jim - I used to think the same way, but after reading what Bill Stevener said in this SMC thread a few weeks ago, I changed my mind when the discrepancy is so slight. He's been doing this for a while.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Congrats Chris on the new lathe. I just got mine and a chisel set. They are not sharp out of the box as everyone has told you. Get the wolverine system and the woodcraft grinder. You will be set. Have fun.

[Keith Burns]

Another one bites the dust

[Bill Stevener]

Hi again Chris,
As Andy has noted, there was some considerable discussion in another thread along the lines of your question #3. Your point to point alignment doesn't appear to be out as much as the one described, but we can bring up some more points to look at on the subject.

First, I must be in agreement with Jim to the point that, "the centers should be virtually ""ded-on"" for best results.

However, this doesn't mean that you can not achieve very satisfactory results, with a very slight misalignment.

There are several factors that one must know before being able to give a constructive resolution to your question. One of them is, in what direction is the misalignment, is it in the x axises or in the y axises?

Most generally it is found in the y axises on a new lathe when first set down on a bench of sorts. The first thing one dose, is to slide the tail stock up to the head stock to check the point to point alignment. Considering everything is brand new, nothing should be bent. Ok, how about the slop between the ways, just about every lathe has some, and one can manipulate the tail stock some, as to correct or exaggerate the alignment. Generally when the position of the tail stock, in the aligned position is known, one can set it the same way along the ways.

Now back to the new lathe. One gets a new or builds a new lathe bench of sorts, and is off to bolt the thing down. All well and good, but did you ever check the ways, ie. longitudinally and transversely? If the ways are not set properly, the observation taken when the tail stock is up to the head stock, point to point, is sort of moot, and or a false observation, when the tail stock is in the center of the ways or the further away the more the misalignment becomes. In other words, how do you know it's in alignment at the other end of the lathe???

I belive the initial set up of the lathe is one of the most critical points to consider. Just because its cast steel, doesn't mean that it can not be distorted. One must take the time to shim it properly, if one is considering the alignment a critical point. If you construct a bench that is movable around the shop, first you must have a "ded-on floor, before you can have ded-on alignment with your lathe.

And with all the fussing, to have the utmost alignment, the tailstock would have to be set-up on a sort of transverse adjustment jig, something like on a metal lathe and even that has six to eight adjusting screws in either direction, before you get started.

So all in all, set up your lathe correctly the first time, then evaluate the alignment, and don't move it. If this is not done, any concern over alignment is non relevant.

Some have found this to be over Bord, but one can check my major turning lathe and find it to be on, within 0.002" in any direction, The ways are shimmed at six points, this is all well and good, if I remember where to set the tail stock.

ps: not that this is any to short, I just wanted to add this. Those that only turn bowls, don't worry about alignment.

Hope this helps some,

Bill.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[Chris DiCiaccio]

This is helping me so much to get as much input as possible to make the right decisions before I get started. So far I have never had a lathe tool in my hand let alone sharpen one. As for the "centers" issue, Bill you are correct, I just slid the tail stock up to the head stock and as stated it looks to be off a 64th maybe x and y. I'll look closer tomorrow. I found that my Sorby tool set came with a dvd. I've been viewing it just now and it is very helpful as well. Thanks to all for the great input.

[Mike Vore]

[quote=Chris DiCiaccio]My how things change quickly. I just posted a few days ago to get you Turners to show some of your combo lathe/flatwork pics. In the post I said that

1-Are these tools ok to use out of the box or should I wait until I get a sharpening system and sharpen them first?

You will need to sharpen themout of the box, AND every half hour or so as you turn. So a good sharpening system iw needed - The low speed grinder and a jig. Wolverines are great, but for about half the price a Sure-Grind from CSUSA will do about just as good.


2-What sharpening system do you recommend?

see answer to #1


4-In order to position the lathe in the best place in my shop, where should I expect most of the shaving, etc to land in relation to the footprint of the lathe?

As others have said - all over the place. More chips come back toward you than the other way.


mike