beginners tools

[Bernie Kopfer]

Someone has to do the contrarian thing. I started turning 12 years ago and have used carbide tools exclusively. I was mentored by an old turner who said “ you might as well start easy and quickly and enjoy the process”. Was he ever right. You learn quickly and you don’t spend time learning the art of sharpening. A couple of diamond plates and the carbides can be refreshed if you wish. I’ve turned everything from small spindles, furniture legs, small ornaments to large bowls.
Now that said traditional tools work excellently also and probably better in many situations. And perhaps if I turned for a living or to make money I would use tools that do it faster etc. But otherwise in an hour of instruction you will be turning out spindle pieces and moving from there.

[David Bassett]

... Soon after I started turning, my wife and I took a week-long class at Craft Supplies USA. ...

... I was mentored by an old turner who said “ you might as well start easy and quickly and enjoy the process”. ...

Thinking back, I started turning over 50 years ago, but certainly haven't done it continuously so I've been in the beginners camp over and over. I think David and Bernie have presented both halves of my argument better than I did.

I'll suggest you first decide what, (and why,) you want to turn. If you plan to round chair spindles and do other simple things "just good enough" to get back to what you really want to do, the carbide tools are a clear choice. However, if turning is your goal and end product you'll probably be better served with the traditional tools, just understand without a class or mentor the learning curve can be very steep. (With the pandemic, hands on instruction will be in short supply for a while longer.) Doing it like the picture or video can be frustrating because very subtle differences make a large difference in your results. While an in person instructor can spot and correct the tiny details and keep you moving forward quickly in that initial phase.

[Chuck Pickering]

Well, after several days searching for tool deals, I remembered I had a hobby machine shop at my disposal... I've decided to make a few carbide insert turning tools. I ordered a set of inserts that come with the screws. The set has a round, a radiused square, and 2 trapezoidal inserts. My metal stash contains various metal bits for the shaft, and and I have a supply of wood to make handles from.
So, that decision has sprouted more questions. I have been watching every video on making insert wood lathe tooling. Most are by folks with no experience with wood turning or metal working, and I see a lot of 'that looks about right...' stuff. I can machine metal, locate, drill and tap holes, so most of the needed skills are already acquired.
I will be starting small, with basic spindle turning such as tool handles, pens and such. Do I really need a 3 foot long tool with 10 inches of shaft sticking out of the handle? I need guidance from the collective on reasonable handle length, shaft stickout, and any other considerations, based on my starting target of turning spindle type stuff under 2.5 inches in diameter.
If I decide to go bigger, I can always make bigger tools!

Thank you all for thoughtful responses and information you've provided.

[Chuck Pickering]

As an addon to my last post, a request. Could someone measure the length of the handle, and the shaft of a normal sized lathe tool please. I see the basic sets usually have a 10" handle. I think 2" of the shaft in the handle would be sufficient,right?

[David Bassett]

... Do I really need a 3 foot long tool with 10 inches of shaft sticking out of the handle? ...

I don't think so. There's some personal preference involved, but with spindle turning you normally can have the tool rest close to the work. Since you don't have a large overhang, you don't need as beefy a shaft nor a long stout handle for the extra leverage.

Instead of guessing, I just dug out a 3/8" spindle gouge to measure. I have a 12" handle with 8" of shaft beyond the handle. I've comfortably used that for things as small as a pen and as big as a 3+" diameter carving mallet head. Especially for pens you could go smaller, maybe 6" shaft & 9" handle, but I've never found this size too unwieldy for small things. I think this is my biggest spindle gouge. I also have smaller more detail oriented gouges that are even smaller, e.g. 1/4" detail gouge has a 7" handle.

I also just checked a full-sized Easy Wood Tools carbide tool. It has 7-1/4" shaft, with a marked 3" over the tool rest limit, and a 14" handle. It's handle shape has a double end and I don't recall ever not choking up to the shorter section when using it on a spindle. Again YMMV.

ETA: I just measured my 1/4" detail (spindle) gouge. 7" handle with 3-1/2" of tool shaft. This is usable for details on things larger than a pen, so no your tools, especially for spindle work, don't need to be huge.

As an addon to my last post, a request. Could someone measure the length of the handle, and the shaft of a normal sized lathe tool please. I see the basic sets usually have a 10" handle. I think 2" of the shaft in the handle would be sufficient,right?

I can't see the depth on any of my assembled tools. My Thompson* handles seem to have about 2" of (aluminum) surface to hold the tool's shaft. I think for smaller tools I'd be happy with 2" in the handle, but for any larger tools I'd be shooting for 3-4" for safety margin. (In all cases I'd want a ferrule, copper pipe caps w/ hole drilled in the end work great, in a wood handle.)

(* I was surprised how much I like these handles. I bought my first one to "hold me over until I make something better", but to me they're wonderful in a heated shop. The one I just pulled from the unheated garage would suck to turn with though.)

[Melvin Feng]

I would definitely start short for spindle work. Since you said that you can always make newer tools longer, if you decide to get into bowls and need the leverage, just make them at that point.

I know it isn't best practice, but when I am using my D-Way negative rake scraper with the toolrest close to the work (1/2" or so), I just use it unhandled for a quick pass. I do this with the medium and large versions I have of theirs. If I need to scrape more than a couple passes, then I put it in my D-way handles with quick change knobs.

Depending on the metal stock you are using, you could make a handle like D-Way, Thompson, or carter and sons, and then just make longer handles or tooling as needed, that way you keep things modular.

Last thought, is rather than have the cutter set to present horizontally to the workpiece, you can angle it down by machining the end at an angle and tapping the hole into that angle. This will mimick a negative rake scraper, and this is how many of the cup style inserts are made and designed. I have a couple Hunter Carbide tools that are like this if you want to look at their design. If I recall correctly, he recommends starting at the 7:30 hour hand of a clock equivalent (I have the hollowing tools of theirs, though I do plan on getting the hercules which is tilted forward rather than to the side). If anything, you can make some that present straight into the work, and make one that presents at an angle and see what you prefer.

When milling the recess for the insert, it is best to machine it so that the rear of the insert is supported to prevent it from rotating on its own if the screw gets loose. Update us with pictures of your custom tools when you are done!

[Bernie Kopfer]

With carbide tools the cutting edge is centered on the diameter of the workpiece. And you have the best control and results with minimal overhang. Try to make all your shafts identical so you don’t have to vary the height of your tool rest from tool to tool. Basically you can do most everything with a larger tool but not vice versa. Once you have a square( rounded radius) and a round cutter done you can turn out handles to your hearts content. great item to learn on.

[Chuck Pickering]

Again, I thank you folks for the thoughtful responses. Much to digest...The tips come tomorrow, weeeeeee!

[Robert Henrickson]

For spindle gouges and skews I would suggest handles which are shorter rather than longer. For a long time, I had 12" handles on both. I have changed to 8" handles on skews which are 1" or less wide. Likewise I now have 7-8" handles on my spindle gouges up to 1/2". I'm much happier. The shorter handles are much easier to use, especially for finer detail work.