Beware Ogran Doners: Table saws with transplanted parts.

[Dev Emch]

Today I ran into a dealer selling a nice tannewitz U table saw real cheap. Wanted to know if I was interested. Well, there is no fence and no mitre gages. What gives says I?

Oh that says the dealer. I sold the whole saw to guy who just wanted the fence and gages. After taking what he needed, he told the dealer to keep the rest and keep the change.

Turns out this saw had an F model tilting oliver saw fence and two oliver #1 mitre gages. He needed them for his oliver that was missing these.

So what happened to the original oliver saw that donated these items? What happened to the tannewitz such that it needed a fence and gage transplant?

More and more we are running into saws that are missing serious hardware like the fence and gages. I have even seen wadkin table saws with transplanted patternmaker fences from tannewitz. Clues are there. Wadkin fences use machined slots and tannys use pin and holes to position the fence.

When I bought a vintage oliver saw guard for my 88, I found that a good section of the mount made no sense. After studying the oliver dirty paper and by accident running accross some fay and egan stuff, I found that half the guard belongs to oliver and the other half which mounts to the saw belongs to a fay and egan table saw. I guess I can use this fay and egan stuff to stake up my tomataoes next spring. Unless you have a fay and egan and then you just have this stuff.

So when buying used stuff like table saws, make sure all the parts actually belong to the saw your buying. Items like missing fences, missing mitre gages, missing lower quadrant gages can be very expensive to replace.

[Chris Giles]

The one that drives me crazy is when you run across a fine old saw that some dipstick has bolted a Biesmeyer fence on, and the seller acts like this is a big plus. Anyone that has used an Oliver or Tannewitz rack and pinion fence knows that there is no comparison. A Bies feels like a toy in comparison. When I see this done, it really upsets me. I have often wondered, where is this huge pile of R&P fences that someone out there seems to be hoarding?

[lou sansone]

The one that drives me crazy is when you run across a fine old saw that some dipstick has bolted a Biesmeyer fence on, and the seller acts like this is a big plus. Anyone that has used an Oliver or Tannewitz rack and pinion fence knows that there is no comparison. A Bies feels like a toy in comparison. When I see this done, it really upsets me. I have often wondered, where is this huge pile of R&P fences that someone out there seems to be hoarding?

hi chris
I has the f fence on my oliver 260d and personally I really did not like it all that much. granted I did not use the saw all that much, but I seemed clunky to me. what is it about the R &P fence that you really like over the bies fence ?

[Bill Simmeth]

The one that drives me crazy is when you run across a fine old saw that some dipstick has bolted a Biesmeyer fence on

Well, maybe I am part dipstick. Been called worse. I haven't yet bolted a Bies to my Oliver, but am seriously considering it. The stock Oliver "F" fence has it's pluses, but was designed to support operations not typically done in a hobby-level shop (nor most modern pro shops). The R&P fence has weaknesses that come to light particularly in view of today's use of sheet goods in projects. IMHO, the Bies-style fence excels in this environment. Try going from a 3" rip to a 14" rip then to a 6" rip with an R&P fence. It takes some time and if you don't want to risk scratching the heck out of your table, some effort as well! It's quick and effortless with a Bies.

I guess perhaps the question is, are you viewing the saw as a tool to get a job done or as a thing to be collected and preserved? If it's the former, then you don't mind incorporating modern improvements that help you do the job better and faster. And what's the downside to the relatively few bolt holes that it takes to mount a Bies? If a collector wanted the saw some day, they could be easily filled. I would never discard the R&P fence. It would be used from time-to-time where it excels -- coving for example.

One dipstick's 2¢ ...

[Chris Giles]

Sorry guys, didn't mean to offend. I have a Bies fence on my small saw, and it works just fine. When you own the saw and are trying to make it work the best that it can in your operation, it is certainly reasonable to utilize such a fence, and doesn't make you a dipstick-it makes you practical. I tend to have a romantic view of these old machines, and would like to see them with their original parts a bit more often. Probably unrealistic given their age. I used a Tanny with an R&P fence for a few years in a pattern shop and loved it. But I tend to put sheet stock on my slider and smaller stuff on the other saw, so I forget to consider that aspect. I agree a rack and pinion fence could get a bit ponderous trying to put sheet goods thru aall the time. But I do love the R&P fence just the same.

[Bill Simmeth]

Chris, certainly no offense taken here. My reply was tongue-in-cheek.

[Dev Emch]

Well, maybe I am part dipstick. Been called worse. I haven't yet bolted a Bies to my Oliver, but am seriously considering it. The stock Oliver "F" fence has it's pluses, but was designed to support operations not typically done in a hobby-level shop (nor most modern pro shops). The R&P fence has weaknesses that come to light particularly in view of today's use of sheet goods in projects. IMHO, the Bies-style fence excels in this environment. Try going from a 3" rip to a 14" rip then to a 6" rip with an R&P fence. It takes some time and if you don't want to risk scratching the heck out of your table, some effort as well! It's quick and effortless with a Bies.

I guess perhaps the question is, are you viewing the saw as a tool to get a job done or as a thing to be collected and preserved? If it's the former, then you don't mind incorporating modern improvements that help you do the job better and faster. And what's the downside to the relatively few bolt holes that it takes to mount a Bies? If a collector wanted the saw some day, they could be easily filled. I would never discard the R&P fence. It would be used from time-to-time where it excels -- coving for example.

One dipstick's 2¢ ...

I have to agree with Bill. Our buddy Russ has a killer Oliver 88-D which is clean and late. Its a 203xxx SSN with original paint and the red badge. He has both fences on this saw. For smaller, more accurate items, you will not beat the E or F rack & pinnon fence. Period. The rack and pinnon fence was designed to cut solid wood extremely precisely. That is why you find so many olivers and tannys in pattern shops. What did these pattern dudes know that everyone else did not? After all, they could have any saw in the world.... they picked the oliver and tannewitz. Hummmmmm, Intertesting!

But if your a plywood monkey, then you have another set of problems. And I feel your pain. I use large amounts of baltic birch these days and that is why I am having to swap out saws. The euro slider is for the most part a design that came from the copious quantities of plywood being used in the european cabinetmaking business. You dont see much old school, solid wood being worked in europe anymore. At least the newer factories. When you find an old grizzled Fritz the Cabinetmaker in Germany, he is still using solid wood and he is also using a 50 or 60 year old Bauerlie or a newer Martin T-17.

There is alot to be said about the Bies fence. So I dont mind seeing one on an oliver. In fact, its a pure joy to use one on an oliver. But I dont think you should give up using the rack and pinnon fence. My old northfield #4 standard saw of a few years ago had both fences. I loved it. Sold it to get a northfield #4 slider which I then sold to get the better martin T-17.