Contributor
How often have you had a warranty issue after the 1st year with woodworking equipment? I'm trying to think of a case and I can't. Normally it's defects when they made a tool that are getting fixed. With Grizzly for very little money you can double the warranty by purchasing the Shop Fox version. I can see in the future as electronics find their way onto woodworking tools a longer warranty could be useful.Originally Posted by Richard Coers
Contributor
I'll bite as a Grizzly fan, I would like a longer warranty.
But warranties aren't free, you pay for the warranty as part of the purchase price. Which is one reason you pay more for a tool with a longer warranty.
A $2500 Griz And a comparable PM for $4000, first year your covered, second to fifth year, you're out of pocket for anything with the Griz but you would have to spend $1500 in those four years to equal the price of the PM. Is it a risk, depends on if you trust the quality of the manufacturer.
I buy what works for me, your mileage may vary as they say.
[OP]
Member
Thanks for all the responses - I canceled. Sad to see the Made in America sticker on something suffering from bad workmanship.
Contributor
In the realm of experiences do differ, our retirement community's woodworking shop accepted delivery last week of a large order of Powermatic equipment: 2000B 3HP table saw, PM1500 bandsaw, 3520C lathe, 60HH 8" jointer, and PM2800B drill press. All arrived in excellent condition, paint intact, fit and finish very high quality, all exposed metal surfaces lightly oiled and covered in plastic. The table saw, bandsaw, lathe, and jointer were perfectly aligned from the factory with only a minor adjustment needed on the jointer's infeed table which was easily accomplished. (And we may have caused that alignment issue when we lifted the jointer bed onto it's base.) We've got a bunch of aerospace engineers here in Huntsville AL ("Rocket City") and I can assure you the digital calipers and dial indicators were out and being applied rigorously.
The outlier thus far is the 2800B drill press. It has more vibration in the motor and head than we expected, and the runout measured against the chucked shank of a good quality drill bit (Fisch) was a bit greater that we expected to see (.003"). We contacted our dealer who put us in touch with Powermatic service the same day. The PM service tech had us send him some photos and a video of the drill press running with the cover removed so the drive assembly was visible. He then asked that we put a dial indicator against the inside of the spindle shaft and tell him what runout we measured there. When we checked the inside of the spindle shaft, the runout there was less than .001" - that's as good as we could ever expect for a woodworking machine.
But, the vibration still concerned us, and we need to find a solution to the final runout with chuck mounted. Since the tech on the phone concluded that he could not see anything obviously out of alignment via the photos and videos, he has moved to their next step: an on-site visit by a service technician who will drive in from 3 hours away to look at the machine. Commitment from the PM service tech with whom we spoke initially: PM will replace the motor if that's the problem, or will replace whatever may be out-of-alignment and get the machine running to spec, or they will replace the machine. We've heard from the tech who will be coming on-site and he expects to be here in the next 3-5 days as he can work out his schedule.
Interestingly, the four machines that set up perfectly were all manufactured in Taiwan and all showed evidence of some sawdust as we unpacked and assembled them, indicating that someone actually cut some wood with these machines as a final step in the QC process. The drill press was manufactured in China -- and, no, there was no sawdust anywhere in it's flat pack container.
FWIMBW, our dealer is Woodcraft and not an online-only seller.
Last edited by Rush Paul; 07-01-2021 at 12:21 AM.
Contributor
In fairness, be sure to check his follow-up videos. His complaint is with the online dealer from whom he bought the PM tablesaw. Once the online dealer put him directly in touch with PM, PM replaced the saw. A year later, he's been very pleased with the new saw and has had zero problems with it. So, a QC problem? Most definitely. But lemons do occur. Importantly, did PM stand behind it's equipment? Yes.
Contributor
Though not for everyone, my approach for the last thirty years is to only buy American-made machinery produced before corporate bean counters began outsourcing manufacturing to the Far East to boost profits. The newest machine I have is a PM model 72 table saw dating to 1972 - at 800+ pounds with a 7.5hp motor, it is a beast that will handle anything I throw at it and it is dead on accurate. While I love the thing, some day I will find a Tannewitz or Northfield to replace it. I have other machines - both wood- and metal-working - dating to the mid-20s. Most of the time, with some patience, these can be found on CraigsList for a song, but require a lot of work as they are usually beat up, rusted, and/or missing critical parts. It typically takes three to six months and some multiple of the purchase price (for replacement parts/bearings.new motors/ etc.) to disassemble, sandblast, repair and repaint a given machine but, when completed, I have a very high quality, solid piece of equipment made of American cast iron and parts that will outlast today's imports. as well as me and whoever ends up with them when I'm gone. Of course, this also requires one to count "machinery rebuilding" among your hobbies. YMMV
Contributor
Keep those guys and their gadgets out of the shop and the drill press will be fine in no time.
Contributor
Never heard of a retirement community having a full wood shop like that. Nice!
When shopping for a drill bit blank as a reference for measuring runout on my DP, I found that all drill rod product I found claimed a tolerance of .002 of runout. (6" blank). So, I agree that your DP is probably as close to 0 as you can get. Congrats on that! I need to change the chuck on my Nova Voyager to get better than the .007 runout I currently have.
Brian
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger or more complicated...it takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." - E.F. Schumacher
Member
Per the video, it took him 10 months to get that replacement from Powermatic and the first saw he received was non-functional for the bulk of that time. I'd surmise that someone from JPW Industries PR team saw the negative review on YT, management decided to send him a new machine.
Moderator
I have a friend/former colleague who now lives in The Villages in central Florida. They have an uber-nice community woodworking shop (maybe even more than one considering the size of the overall community) that I had the pleasure to visit and tour a couple years ago. Membership is required, but for the many community members who enjoy woodworking but can't keep a personal full shop at their home, it fills a need. Honestly, however, most of the folks I met were generally standing around, drinking caffeinated beverages and chewing the fat...
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The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...
Contributor
Thanks, that's very helpful information to calibrate our expectations.
Contributor
Yeah, we have to keep reminding them: this is woodworking!
Member
You know Grizzly makes their stuff overseas too, right?
Member
I think it is like cars. A company can make 500000 vehicles and some people will end up with a lemon. The joke in the industry was don’t buy something made Monday morning or Friday afternoon.
I have 15 PM large tools all bought new 13-14 years ago and have had zero issue, zero breaks, zero warranty claims and they have always responded quickly to questions. I did order spare parts, just to have them and they came quickly but this was before COVID which has disrupted the supply chain from China.
Did they come with a minor scratch to two, yes. I put several on them over the years myself. But I didn’t buy a museum piece. They have all worked perfectly for me.
The PM vertical panel saw is the only tool still made in the USA.
The reality that 90% of the parts that are in the “Made in the USA” products comes from overseas. They are just assembled in the USA.
One international company would have a product completely made in China and shipped bulk from China. They would be depalletized in Tenn and put in individual for sale boxes, tested and noted as “assembled in the USA.”
Member
Don't pick a fight with the Grizzly G0696X it will crush you! lol Seriously the two saws sitting side by side was striking, the PM2000 looked intimidated.
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