G0586 8" jointer or ? Need help deciding!

[Matt Johnson]

I've been looking at jointers and I can't make up my mind on what to get. Even though I am still new to woodworking I don't want to buy a jointer that I am going to have to upgrade in a few months or years. I want a jointer that is simple to use and adjust that is built to last. I like the 75'' long bed on the grizzly but do you really need a bed that long to joint 6ft+ boards or can it be done as good with a 45" long bed jointer. Any thoughts on the York Craft YC-8J? The most I can spend is $800.00 (price of the G0586 with shipping). I also was thinking about one of the Jet 6" jointers. ANY input or advice would be great. Thanks.

[Steve Clardy]

If and when I upgrade from my 6", it will be a longbed griz 8", or a powermatic longbed 6".
Haven't decided yet.
Longer the bed, longer material can be jointed.

[Matt Johnson]

How long of boards can you edge a short bed and still get good results?

[Jim Becker]

Matt, rule of thumb is twice the combined length of the infeed and outfeed tables. In practice, it can be more or less, depending on the skills of the woodworker. IMHO, go for the long bed. It even makes jointing shorter boards easier. Don't step down to a 6" in unless you have to. Face jointing is a very important step in the milling process and it's a shame to have to rip a beautiful board down to get it to fit on the jointer.

[Allen Bookout]

Matt, I know that you are just starting to look so just in case that you do not have a Grizzly catalog, there are two Grizzly eight inch jointers in your price range. The GO586 that you mentioned and the GO490. I am not trying to steer you in the direction of Grizzly as this is for information only.

Good luck in your quest! Allen

[Jeff Watson]

I almost bought the G0586 until I learned Grizzly was coming out with a parallelogram table, the G0490. It is a more modern design, less problems with wear and easier to adjust. It also has a built in mobile base, which the G0586 does not have, that will add another 50 to 70 to the price if you need that feature. I have got a G0490 on order. I usually don't like to buy the first run of a model, but in this case, with all the feed back I have read on Grizzly, I think it is worth the chance. The G0490 also has a 3 hp motor where the G0586 is 2 hp. Just some thoughts. Good luck with what ever you decide.

[Mark Rios]

I almost bought the G0586 until I learned Grizzly was coming out with a parallelogram table, the G0490. It is a more modern design, less problems with wear and easier to adjust. It also has a built in mobile base, which the G0586 does not have, that will add another 50 to 70 to the price if you need that feature. I have got a G0490 on order. I usually don't like to buy the first run of a model, but in this case, with all the feed back I have read on Grizzly, I think it is worth the chance. The G0490 also has a 3 hp motor where the G0586 is 2 hp. Just some thoughts. Good luck with what ever you decide.

May I ask a couple of questions here please? First of all, what wear problems are there that are lessened with the parallelogram tables?

Second, this is a question that I has been really bugging me for a while now:
For the "average" hobbyist WWer or even the serious average WWer (say one who does a project every now and then for hire, doesn't his or her jointer just need to have two flat and coplanar tables, sharp, well adjusted blades and a good, strong motor? In other words, wouldn't one of the brand name, 8" jointers do the trick?

The jointer, to this amateur, seems to be a tool that gets your rough wood to a starting place. The tools that are used subsequently seem, to me, to be the ones that require more accuracy and precision. How many add-on accessories are there for the jointer?

I'm sure that there's alot of you folks out there that build a bunch of fine stuff, even real nice furniture, with an average jointer and then use your nicer (sometimes REAL, REAL, nice) bandsaws, tablesaws with expensive micro-fences, router tables with same, and other tools. This may be my ignorance coming out but it seems to me that the jointer just isn't that complicated a part in the "average" WWing process. PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong.

[Jim O'Dell]

I'm with Mark, I've got a few questions while we're talking jointers. I hope to get one by the end of the year, and with everything I do, I research 'til I don't have a clue what I'm doing!
Of the 2 Griz jointers mentioned, the G0586 has hand wheels for bed movement. Beds ride on dovetailed ways. This I understand.
The G0490 has levers for the bed adjustments. Is this true of all parallelogram tables? It seems the wheels would be more precise for adjusting.
And lastly, can someone point me to something that will explain how the parallelogram set up works. That might describe the difference in the wheels and levers. Hope the answers help the others following this thread. Thanks for starting it, Matt. Jim

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Mark....I'm waiting to hear Bill S., Dev and Lou's response to this question. As far as levers versus wheels, from what I've read, it's a matter of personal preference and what you are individually are comfortable with. I've read expert commentary supporting both as the best......?

[Jim Becker]

I really don't think that "wear" is going to be an issue with most anyone reading this thread when it comes to the differences between jointer designs! Mine has been set to the same 1/32" for close to three years now. What's to wear? In a production environment where the jointer is actually adjusted to different depths with some frequency, maybe there will be wear over a very long period of time, but...that's a long period of time.

The one major functional difference with the parallelogram design is that the edge/lip of the infeed table remains exactly the same distance from the cutterhead no matter what the depth of adjustment. The "gap" stays the same.
-----

As to the adjustment method--levers or wheels--I used to think that the wheels were a significant advantage. I found out it doesn't matter when I bought my present J/P which uses levers, especially since, as I mentioned above, I never change the adjustment!

[Allen Bookout]

Mark, I am sure that some of the guys that are experts on tools will show up to make comments but in the meantime I will tell you why I wanted to go with the parallelogram system. In the consumer grade small jointers there seems to be only two options. Dovetail keyway slide systems and the parallelogram. I currently have the former. You said in part, as a question "doesn't his or her jointer just need to have two flat and coplanar tables, sharp, well adjusted blades and a good, strong motor?". That is pretty much it. Mine has all but the coplanar tables and with the keyway system the only way to correct the problem, that I know of, is to shim the outfeed table. To me that is a crummy way to fix a nice tool. With the parallelogram system either or both tables can be adjusted with four eccentric bushings, one in each corner. You can adjust the outfeed table to the cutter head and then adjust the infeed table to the outfeed table for a perfectly aligned tool. That may not be possible with the other system if the outfeed table has to be adjusted crooked to the cutter head to make it line up with the infeed table. You do not want to make the adjustment to the infeed table because that is the one that you move all of the time after the initial adjustment and the shims may wear or shift. If you have a perfect machine to start with I suppose that it does not make any difference. I am getting a headach just thinking about it.

That is my story and that is why I placed an order for the Grizzly GO490. It would have been hard to part with the extra cash but I might have bought the Delta DJ20 if it was still made in the USA. The other option would be to buy a good used professional jointer but I need a mobile one and also I do not have a lot of extra space right now.

A couple of other things now that I think about it. I have some play in the adjustment wheel and also the table locks, like most of the machines other than the DJ20 or it's clones, have Mickey Mouse small locks. Why put up with it if you can spend the same money and get a better system.

Those are my thoughts and I am sticking to it. So far.

Allen

P.S. As to your thoughts on using lesser tools to prepare your wood there are guys here that can do it with a hand plane. Not me. That requires skill and besides I like the sound of POWER.

[Mark Rios]

For clarity, my only question regarding parallelogram tables has to do with wear. My second question is in regard to jointers in general, table design notwithstanding. I'm with you, I think the G0490 is a great new machine; 3hp motor, heavy base, long table, well made, great price, plus the bonus mobility built in. I'm just wondering what I'm giving up if I don't buy something else. Again, for the "average", REPEAT "AVERAGE", WWer, what more do I (we) need? At least for now.

Then again, this amateur is mostly just a bonehead.

[Allen Bookout]

Just to make one thing clear. I do not know how good the GO490 is. Could be good----could be bad. Only time will tell. I am risking it for the price. Allen

[Russ Massery]

My way of thinking is the same as Allen's. I just ordered the G0490 also, I did it with much internal debate. So much so that I was going to order the G0586 but missed the "introductory price". Also I needed to sell my 6" first. My second choice was the Yorkcraft.

[Mike Cutler]

In America we usually believe in the bigger is better philosophy. When it comes to jointers I think this is the correct thinking.
A longer bed means that a longer piece of material can be processed, either edge joined or faced, by a person working alone. From personal experience, I can tell you that edge joining 12' boards, 12"-16" wide on a 6" jointer was not my most edifying woodworking experience.
The amount of floor space taken up by a larger versus smaller jointer really becomes a non issue once the machine is in use. The 12' board that I previously mentioned required in excess of 24' of shop space to edge joint.It wouldn't have mattered if there was a 6" or an 8" or even a 12" the board was still longer than the jointer.
One more issue with smaller jointers is weight. The weight of a 12' long 12" wide board of oak of brazillian cherry has enough weight to tip a 6" jointer over when all of it is on the outfeed table. Archimedes principle, or something like that. bigger jointers have more weight. Holding a jointer down with your foot while feeding a board through it is another less than enjoyable experience.
The primary difference in a paralellagram versus "traditional" jointer is that the cutter head distance to the tables remains the same when the tables are re positioned. Dev had an excellent description of the mechanics in one of his posts a few months back, but I can't find it now. For my use, this is a non factor. I don't re-position the tables. They were set to remove ~ 1/32" and have not been moved in 5 years.
Unless you really plan on doing a lot of table repositioning, wear and tear of the dovetails and ways would be minimal to non-existent. A jointer just doesn't get changed alot for most people.
If I were to offer any advice it would be to purchase the largest jointer that you can afford, no matter whom the manufacture is. As I stated, I currently have a 6" jointer, and the next step will be at least a 12" when I can afford it.
Don't be afraid to look at used jointers. They are very simple, rugged machines, and you almost have to intentionally set out to damage one beyond usability. Very good deals can be found on 6" and 8" jointers by people that finally saved enough $$$ to upgrade. I've seen a number of them hit the classifieds on the board here.
My .02 fwiw