Motor swap in BIG Slider...?

[Malcolm McLeod]

Has anyone down-sized the motor in a BIG slider? Say dropped a 10Hp motor out and installed a 5Hp..??

I am casually looking for a used sliding table saw. Looking out to ~500miles from me, I see very few (=0) in a 'consumer' size: <=5Hp, 220V, single phase. But I see several industrial sized units: >7.5Hp., 480V, etc.. I don't need 10Hp, or even 7.5Hp - and really don't want to try to supply that much power via a home shop electrical service.

I am not concerned about the electrical reconfiguration inherent to such a swap, but as this is a new machine to me, I am wary of any potential mechanical pitfalls to reducing motor power.

TIA.

(I have considered a VFD and just dropping the allowed motor amperage, but want to consider the motor swap as well.)

[Erik Loza]

No firsthand experience but I would think it would be easier to get a phase converter. Most of the domestic 1-phase motors use a totally different mounting flange than the European motors. Just my thoughts.

Erik

[Mark Bolton]

Im outside your range, wish you were closer. Ive got an older Laguna 9.5' slider complete but taken apart, no motor, that they replaced for free that you could have for free lol. Been avoiding shipping it to scrap but its coming to that point to free up some space.

No idea on most sliders but even simple ones seem to have a bunch of relays and control circuitry for main and scoring motors and switched from a couple locations though as you say tossing on a new motor and throwing a switch on the cabinet somewhere wouldnt be an issue.

[Malcolm McLeod]

Thanks for the input. The shop service still has to feed the phase converter to feed a 7.5kW(10Hp) beast. And I can get custom motors - i.e. a euro 160M frame seems fairly common for the 7.5kW, so I could potentially get a 160M frame with 5Hp windings. ...thinking out loud.

But again looking for any limitations or gotchas in the mechanical side of this cerebral flatulence.

[Malcolm McLeod]

Thanks. The electrical side of this is what I do for a living, so not intimidated by that - - just never owned/operated a slider, so being cautious about the mechanical side and usage becoming a disaster.

[Kevin Jenness]

I don't think swapping the motor out would be practical, and finding a single phase motor on a "BIG" (?) slider is unlikely though not impossible. I would say it depends on your power supply and the specific machine you are looking at. I'm not sure where the price/ benefit ratio is for vf's vs rotary phase converters on motors over 5 hp. I have several vfds on 3hp or smaller motors and they are quite affordable. I put together a functional 10 hp rotary unit for under $400 which runs off a 50 amp 220v volt breaker. I would avoid high voltage motors personally due to the added complication of a transformer. If you can power a 7.5 or 10hp rotary converter that opens up many relative bargains in industrial scale equipment.

5 hp would be fine for most use, but extra power can be useful for big timber.

A free saw needing a motor changes the calculation entirely.

[Bill Dufour]

You can use a 3hp vfd to supply a 10hp motor and get 3 hp out of it. Just watch the voltage. Later on, if you need more power, you can buy a bigger Vfd and use the 3hp one for a drillpress or what ever. 3hp was the break point for vfds. above 3hp the price gets very high, very fast. It may be up to five hp now?
Bill D

[Brian Holcombe]

I would want that HP for the larger blades and bigger cuts. The large blades usually have a wide kerf which makes the HP requirement increase.

My friend Allen bought a Martin recently with 10hp iirc. I did some cutting on it of heavy material and it is nice to just cruise through those cuts.

[Malcolm McLeod]

I would want that HP for the larger blades and bigger cuts. The large blades usually have a wide kerf which makes the HP requirement increase.

My friend Allen bought a Martin recently with 10hp iirc. I did some cutting on it of heavy material and it is nice to just cruise through those cuts.

Thanks muy-cheesy-mas - - this is what I was looking for - the mechanical considerations! I did controls work for a lumber mill on a wide range of equipment - not a slider - with huge blades. But, I have never laid hands on a circular saw blade larger than 12", so didn't realize the 12"-18"(?) blades are wider.

Prompt for this musing was a rasher of Altendorf F90s on C.List recently. And for reference, intended use is furniture scale projects, not timber framing.

For the other responders, again thank you - - I have an excellent grasp (...well, at least my boss thinks I have) of the electrical side of this. And I simply don't want to feed a saw with 50A, regardless of the interface (rotary/static/vfd/3ph/1ph/etc). Ultimately, I may have to, but first exploring options to reduce this.

[Mark Bolton]

Typically anything larger that 12" diameter your just going for lower entrance/exit angles on veneers/sheet goods or if your for some reason cutting stacked sheets. Even then they usually max out around .180 but in my opinion for general use, sheets/solids up to 8/4 a 12" blade is going to do everything you need and the smaller the diameter the better your going to do with lower HP.

When I have a mile of heavy ripping to do in 6/4 or so we run a 10" .126 kerf blade to maximize the power of the saw and increase feed speed.

I dont honestly know of a situation other than fragile veneers and no scoring that you'd run 14, 16, 18 inch blades by default. The up front and sharpening costs alone dont really make sense unless you absolutely need it.

[Patrick Kane]

Thanks muy-cheesy-mas - - this is what I was looking for - the mechanical considerations! I did controls work for a lumber mill on a wide range of equipment - not a slider - with huge blades. But, I have never laid hands on a circular saw blade larger than 12", so didn't realize the 12"-18"(?) blades are wider.

Prompt for this musing was a rasher of Altendorf F90s on C.List recently. And for reference, intended use is furniture scale projects, not timber framing.

For the other responders, again thank you - - I have an excellent grasp (...well, at least my boss thinks I have) of the electrical side of this. And I simply don't want to feed a saw with 50A, regardless of the interface (rotary/static/vfd/3ph/1ph/etc). Ultimately, I may have to, but first exploring options to reduce this.

Yeah, some of the Altendorfs ive seen appear to be fantastic deals. Assuming the F45 is on a similar playing field as a Martin T72A, the prices are great. For example, Grothouse has tried selling their T72a with a 12' slider for $15,000 for 18 months. there is an Altendorf F45 with a 10.5' table in Ohio for $6,000. They are within 2-3 years of production from one another.

[Malcolm McLeod]

Typically anything larger that 12" diameter your just going for lower entrance/exit angles on veneers/sheet goods or if your for some reason cutting stacked sheets. Even then they usually max out around .180 but in my opinion for general use, sheets/solids up to 8/4 a 12" blade is going to do everything you need and the smaller the diameter the better your going to do with lower HP.

When I have a mile of heavy ripping to do in 6/4 or so we run a 10" .126 kerf blade to maximize the power of the saw and increase feed speed.

I dont honestly know of a situation other than fragile veneers and no scoring that you'd run 14, 16, 18 inch blades by default. The up front and sharpening costs alone dont really make sense unless you absolutely need it.

Thanks, I will add this to the data file. Would the arbor typically have the travel range to get full depth use of a 10" blade - - i.e. ~3" depth of cut (@90deg)? Or, does the large diameter arbor limit this?

I have previously skimmed over these larger Hp saws as unnecessary for my use, so have not even investigated the blade options and ranges available. They seem to be universally equipped/advertised with blades of 16"-18", so just assumed that was the standard.

[Brian Holcombe]

Typically anything larger that 12" diameter your just going for lower entrance/exit angles on veneers/sheet goods or if your for some reason cutting stacked sheets. Even then they usually max out around .180 but in my opinion for general use, sheets/solids up to 8/4 a 12" blade is going to do everything you need and the smaller the diameter the better your going to do with lower HP.

When I have a mile of heavy ripping to do in 6/4 or so we run a 10" .126 kerf blade to maximize the power of the saw and increase feed speed.

I dont honestly know of a situation other than fragile veneers and no scoring that you'd run 14, 16, 18 inch blades by default. The up front and sharpening costs alone dont really make sense unless you absolutely need it.

I use a 10” blade since that’s what works on my saw but I have found the larger blades useful for joinery work and light timber work.

[Kevin Jenness]

Prompt for this musing was a rasher of Altendorf F90s on C.List recently.

I believe the F90 is non-tilting. That would be a dealbreaker for me.

[David Kumm]

Swapping to a smaller motor is easier than going to single phase. Saws like SCM run 9 hp motors that are smaller frame and an easier swap for 5 hp, three phase. You still need a vfd but they will be in the 500 range. I have a 200 amp service in my house and the home shop is fed by 100 amps off the main and runs 9 hp motors with a 7 hp dust collector and I've not shut down the air conditioner or lights yet. Dave