Kitchen Cabinets

[Bryan Hall]

Around here painters charge, roughly, by the door/drawer. $150 for each one regardless of size. If hand painting is an option you can typically get it done cheaper.

Also worth noting is that high quality cabinet paint can also be hard to get. I use sherwinn williams emerald urethane and it comes out great but is commonly sold out.

[Rob Sack]

I have been building kitchen cabinets for over 3 decades. First of all, I do not recommend melamine. It is really heavy, hard to cut cleanly unless you have an scoring saw or an extremely accurate saw with super sharp blades that will wear out quickly, and will swell as much as 50% when exposed to even a slow drip. (Don't ask me how I know this.) It also doesn't hold fasteners well and doesn't glue well. For cabinet boxes, I recommend pre-finished 3/4 inch domestic plywood. I avoid imported sheet goods for a variety of reasons. Although I have done a lot of frameless cabinets, even for that "European full overlay look" I use some kind of face frame. As mentioned earlier, poplar is good, soft maple is better, though more expensive and sometimes harder to find. I think hard maple is over kill. I would also consider beech. Here in the Los Angeles area, it is priced similar to poplar, is at least as durable as soft maple, and works easier than hard maple. It also paints well. I also recommend only American made hardware.

[jack dempsey]

Bryan, Thank you for the information and the tips. I had not thought of a cut list program and have never used one but I think I will give it a go. I believe face frame is the way to go for the looks and the strength it adds. You were correct as to the reason to attempt this project, you want to help your kids. when you can. My daughter saved and with a little help managed to buy a house on her own. Makes me a proud Dad. Thanks again.

[Paul Wunder]

I used this book by Paul Levine 30 years ago when I made my first kitchen: Making Kitchen Cabinets. He also has a companion video.

You can probably grab both on the web for $15 used. Lot of detail on carcass building, dimensions, material, etc.

[Lee Schierer]

I build a lot of cabinets and I've developed a system that I like so hopefully you can steal a few ideas from me.

1. If you haven't worked with a cutlist program yet, give that a quick spin. There's a free one called cutlist optimizer and it will help you with ordering all your ply. I also prefer working with 4x4 vs 4x8 sheets (because who likes picking up 4x8 sheets!?) So when I run the optimizer I tell it that all my stock is 4x4 and I just have the lumber yard cut it for me. Even though there will be a little extra waste doing 4x4 sheets, you can end up using those scraps elsewhere.

2. For materials: use lumber that you like and would want to use again. I make all of mine out of 3/4 appleply, baltic birch, or a nice prefinished maple. This way, I again, have useful scraps for the project or other builds later. Same thing goes for the faceframe and stiles/rails. Do you like working with soft maple? Then make them out of soft maple so you have soft maple leftovers. Do you prefer hard maple or have a hard maple project coming up? Then you have your answer. I make mine 7/8 thick, which is based on how big my router bits can handle for the stiles and rails.

3. Kids: if your daughter has, or is planning for kids in the future, I really recommend face frame cabinets over frameless. When those kids start to grab cabinet doors they will hold up better if secured to real wood. Every time I see an expensive hinge ripped out of a cheap particle board box I sigh. High quality drawer slides as well! I prefer undermounts and you should note that there is a 3-4 month lead time on the best brands for these.

Have fun with the project! Such a great gift idea. Take your time, doing it perfect should be good enough. That way every time she opens one of those doors and drawers she'll think of you and smile.

X2, all good points. Use quality hinges as well and record all the hardware sources you use for future reference. Kids and adults have been known to lean on a cabinet door.

[Jim Dwight]

I built one kitchen about 30 years ago. We didn't have a lot of money and I did not have great tools but my wife was pleased with the result so it was a success. The boxes were rotary cut oak plywood from a big box store. Joints were shallow dados (used more for location of the pieces than strength) and were glued and screwed together. Boxes were frameless but could have had face frames. Doors were solid oak with raised panels and cope and stick joints. The door joints were all cut on my router table. Doors were full overlay. Wider cabinets got solid wood shelves. Where the screws would show I plugged the holes. I think I brushed on oil based poly - I like the amber tint it gives on oak.

I also made a kind of a kitchenette in the basement of the house after that with melamine cabinets. They were OK but I wouldn't do that again. Too hard to work with. But it is durable and cheaper.

When I made my kitchen I did not know about track saws - if they even existed - but if I was doing it now I would not proceed without one. They make working with sheet goods MUCH easier. Mine is not a break down tool, I cut large pieces of sheet or solid wood to final size with it. I kind of like making doors but you should also think about just buying the doors, especially if the project gets to be a bit much. They may not cost you much over the cost of the materials.

I would use my Fuji mini mite 3 HVLP set to spray Resisthane tinted white (assuming that is what your daughter wants). You could paint an entire kitchen with primer (I use the special one sold by Hood finishes for Resisthane) and two coats of tinted Resisthane in a day. The finish is water borne so cleanup is simplified. An Earlex HVLP would probably work too.

When I made my kitchen years ago I did it a cabinet or two at a time. My wife was patient and put up with this. So it took months. I did not have a dedicated shop so the alternative would have been to leave the cars out of the garage until I was done. You might want to break things down like this. Uppers are not as bulky as lowers, you might want to start there first. They also don't have to be 12 inches deep. I think Ikeas are a little deeper now - could be a way to gain space.

[Charles Coolidge]

In related news I opted for soft close hardware on drawers (3/4 maple dovetail they are heavy) and raised panel Hickory cabinet doors. The soft close hardware is still holding up nice 11 years later. My shelves are also 3/4 inch thick ply.

I have to admit also, the cabinet making pro's have me totally out classed. They did incredible work for a reasonable price. Now there's two things I don't DIY, plumbing and kitchen cabinets.

[jack dempsey]

Rob, Thanks for the information. I am leaning toward maple for the face frames as that is the style I will of with. Good tip on the imported sheet goods. I am fortunate that I believe there is a good supplier of sheet goods about a 1/2 hour away.

[Patrick Varley]

Around here painters charge, roughly, by the door/drawer. $150 for each one regardless of size. If hand painting is an option you can typically get it done cheaper.

Also worth noting is that high quality cabinet paint can also be hard to get. I use sherwinn williams emerald urethane and it comes out great but is commonly sold out.

I'd throw out Insl-X Cabinet Coat as another paint option. I've had pretty good luck with it.

[Ron Citerone]

I used 3/4” baltic birch for my cabinet boxes and backs and I was quite happy with the ruggedness of the cabinets. I used face frames and blum hinges. I also used a 2 x4 base on the floor which was easy to level, which means the base cabinet boxes were reduced by 3 1/2” in height. You might want to have your sink ahead of time to make sure your sink base accepts your sink. I reused my sink and had some installation issues that I resolved, but could have been avoided when I built my sink base.
Good luck.

[Rich Engelhardt]

I bought the books, read the web sites, watched the videos and ended up getting Marc Sommerfeld's router bits and one of his feather boards.
I made a whole kitchen using it and a whole bunch of individual cabinets.

I can't recommend it any higher for making the whole process really stupid easy.

As far as the tooling goes:
- Track saw for cutting the carcasses (optional - but - it sure makes the whole job quicker & easier)
- 3+ hp router in a table
- Sommerfeld bits & featherboard
- Kreg pocket hole jig
- Rockler Universal Drawer Slide Jig

Before making any decision - I suggest watching the Sommerfeld videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klv0jzWD26w This is part one of three.

[Michael Rutman]

I’m making my first cabinet based on advise here (thanks everyone!). I picked up a few newbie tips.

Get a track saw. I got the TS55 and the 55 inch track. It’s a game changer. I didn’t get the square for the track and it ended up taking an extra few minutes per cut to make sure it was square. It was incredible.

1/2 vs 3/4. I kept wanting to go with 1/2 as it’s lighter and I didn’t need the extra strength. Then I noticed all the dados are 3/8 deep. That would have left about 1/16 behind the dados. I could have reduced the dado to 1/4, but then we don’t have a lot of strength holding the floor and back in.

720 Krieg. Beats the other pocket hole jigs they make. I was able to do all the holes dust free in under 10 minutes. Buy extra screws. Cabinets with pocket holes use 20-32 screws. Pocket holed face frame also, that’s about a box of 50 per cabinet.

I used a Whitehead plywood sized dado bit and wasn’t very happy. I had to run it through multiple times to get a clean cut. I have a delta 620 so it shouldn’t be an underpowered issues, but be aware that if you don’t have a clean edge you will not get that playwood to slide in nice.

What amazed me was how fast I got to a carcass. My first cabinet, on a rolling cart, double carcass, face frame, was ready to stain in about 12 hours of work. 6 of those hours were first time learning.

[Dave Sabo]

I have been building kitchen cabinets for over 3 decades. First of all, I do not recommend melamine. It is really heavy, hard to cut cleanly unless you have an scoring saw or an extremely accurate saw with super sharp blades that will wear out quickly, and will swell as much as 50% when exposed to even a slow drip.

Me too, and I think melamine can be a great material if used properly. While a scoring saw or point to point machine will excel at processing it, melamine can be cut on a good ol contractors saw with very good results if you have the right blade. I use a Freud TCG for melamine and a Forrest DuraLine with very good results. CMT and Amana also make melamine blades that should be on par with these too. Having a sharp blade for whatever you're cutting is just standard practice. A dull(ing) blade will produce crappy cuts on your plywood too. So will a blade not designed for cutting ply. Plywood will also swell if exposed to prolonged moisture. You could spec waterproof melamine if you wish. And while good quality melamine is heavier than an equivalent sized ply panel - it's not as if its a deal breaker because both really require two men or mechanical handling.

A tray like this will alleviate most moisture issues whether you use plywood or melamine for your carcass:
https://www.mockett.com/kitchen-bath...undersink.html

It also doesn't hold fasteners well and doesn't glue well.

Strictly not true. If your experience is bad - you're using the wrong fasteners , glue and technique. UV coated plywood doesn't exactly present a tenacious surface for wood glue bonding.

I also recommend only American made hardware

Nothing wrong with domestic hardware. But if European hinges and undermount drawer slides are called for, then the European manuf. run circles around the domestic makes. The only issue now is that soft close runners and hinges are on allocation from the big Euro manuf. and can be difficult to procure in quantity in a timely fashion.

[Allan Dozier]

When I made a bunch of cabinets for my shop I used melamine and did frameless with edgebands. I wanted them done quick so not having to finish them was nice. But for kitchens in a nice home I would only go with face frames. My handheld edgebander works but not as well as a multi-thousand dollar commercial edgebander.
I use 3/4" ply for the boxes including the backs. I buy cabinet grade maple that comes 49 x 97" and soft maple for the face frames.
For the end cabinets I join the sides that will show with dominoes or biscuits but for the hidden sides I used Conformat screws and glue. For the 3/4 back I use pocket screws and you could use them for tops if desired. It is not worth it to me to use 1/2" backs because I would want a 3/4" nailer board and have to incorporate that anyway. No rabbets, just inset the back and screw it in.
Like Bryan said, a cut layout program is nice. I use Cutlist Plus for cutting layout. I am lucky to have a sliding saw that can handle a full sheet and use a Crazyhorse rolling cart to
handle the sheets by myself.
As far as finishing, I find paint is more forgiving than a natural finish. Any little veneer chip or joint gap can be patched. I have had great luck with SW Kem Aqua Plus sprayed with HVLP. . I raise the grain with wet rag, quick sand with RO and 220 then apply the Kem Aqua surfacer and top with the flat version of topcoat. It dries really hard and glass smooth.

[Kevin Jenness]

I also recommend only American made hardware.

Such as? Are there any kitchen hardware suppliers manufacturing solely or primarily in the US?