Who Has a Tractor?

[Tom M King]

You don't have to constantly shift with a shuttle shift, or as called by other manufacturers, a power reverser. It's just a lever you can flip back, and forth with the little finger of your left hand. You can adjust the time it takes to shift from forward to reverse, and reverse to forward pretty easily. I have mine set for three seconds forward to reverse, to give me time to turn around and look, and about 2 seocnds for reverse to forward. It's not a harsh shift, and you don't have to touch the clutch. The faster you set the shift, the harsher it is. It locks the clutch up hard, so nothing ever gets unusually warm. The only trouble with it is after doing loader work for a while you'll get in the truck, look back over your shoulder, and activate the signal lever, expecting it to go in reverse.

It has both the standard lever accelerator, and a foot accelerator that can change rpm regardless of how you set the throttle lever. I use the foot accelerator a lot when doing loader work.

Ronald, what did people use that 656 for? I've never seen one. My large tractor is 117hp, and I can't imagine any advantage to having a hydro in that one. It has a reverser too.

My 70hp with reverser had 1800 hours on a broken hour meter when I bought it in 1991, and I'm sure I've put over a hundred hours a year on it since then, working hard most of the time. I just rebuilt the reverser on it about a year ago. It would be a good hydro to push as much dirt as this one has, and lasted as long. I rebuilt the reverser myself, whereas I would have to take a tractor somewhere to get them to fix a hydro transmission.

Are hydraulic drive motors the same as a hydrostatic transmission??

[Tom M King]

Here is one implement I built, that I don't think you can even find commercially. I built it for topdressing uneven ground into smooth, so I can cut the grass faster. This was just a prototype I built out of 3x3x3/16 angle iron. It won't even knock the top off of a Dandelion. It works great though. I could have built it out of 4z4z1/4", and moved more dirt at the time. The thing it's mounted to is a utility hitch from Tractor Supply, or maybe Agri Supply.

So far, it's working good enough not to have to make another variation.

It's strictly for topdressing with topsoil and sand, and not intended for grading. You can see the low area I filled in with it in the second picture. It fills in small depressions too. I expect the topsoil to sink some, but I can just keep adding it over the years until I can cut everything at high speed. It doesn't harm growing grass.

[Jerome Stanek]

I have a Kubota L225 that I bought in 1974 that I still use once in a while. I upgraded to a ford 1720 4 wheel dive with over size tires that gave me the ground speed that works well with my flail mower. The Kubota was ether to fast or to slow 4 th gear low was to slow and 1st gear high was to fast no in between. I did demo several tractors and the Ford fit my needs. The JD struggled with the mower and the next size up was just to big.

[Ronald Blue]

Ronald, hydro instead of gear with power shift ( what's called shuttle shift by some, but same thing) is personal preference. I'll take a power shift any day over a hydro. But a power shift transmission is probably not even available on the little tractors.

For those that don't know, a hydrostatic transmission is sort of like an automatic transmission in a car. A power shift is a regular straight transmission, but forward to reverse can be changed with a lever to the left of the steering wheel, that you can flip back and forth with your little finger. You don't have to use the clutch with a shuttle shift/power shifter, and is great for loader work, or mowing around obstacles. With the hydro, much like a riding lawnmower, you step on different pedals for forward, and reverse.

A hydrostatic is constantly wearing itself, whereas the power shift is good for thousands of hours. You find hydros on small tractors and riding mowers, and power shifted transmissions on larger tractors.

The advantage of a hydrostat is that you can ease off as you push into a pile with a loader and never slip a wheel. A gear drive even with reverser is constantly moving. Do you leave it a full throttle? I've never used a tractor with a reverser. As info the early ones required clutching though. The power reverser is a relatively new thing. Last 20 years maybe? Do they work the same as a backhoe with torque converter? They have a reverser as well and act more like an automatic transmission in a vehicle except for being able to switch from forward to reverse with the flick of a wrist. The draw back is they are gear sensitive and for loader work you are going to want to be in 1st or 2nd.

The pump on a hydrostatic system is a unique design. The piston style pump goes from 0 displacement to full displacement in either direction. The drive motor can also be variable displacement to maximize torque. The system can be load sensing and in effect be like going to a lower gear. This is accomplished either through a mechanical controller electrical controller. As for reliability I disagree that it's not reliable. Every John Deere dozer built today is hydrostatic. Even their largest 1050 at over 300 horsepower. A properly designed system is reliable. I know you like your JD stuff so I thought I would offer that as well.

[Tom M King]

The John Deere I have with a reverser is a 1979. I'm not sure when they started making them.

I never leave it at full throttle. For loader work, I'll leave the lever throttle set at high idle, and use the foot accelerator to increase rpms, and of course you can always completely disengage by pressing the clutch in. I expect it's the same as a backhoe, and that's probably where they started. It's not the same as a torque converter though. The controller valve is all hydraulic timed with pressure that you can adjust on a couple of springs.

I replaced every moving part, bearing, and seal in the forward clutch pack, and the reverse brake, all inside the reverser, and all the parts were less than a grand from John Deere. It really wasn't that difficult with a good Shop Manual, which John Deere has great ones.

I'm sure the newer ones are different than this old one. This one is fairly small, and goes in front of the transmission, and no such thing as electronics. The all hydraulic control box is to the side under the right foot platform. Those dozer boxes are huge.

I didn't say it was better, but I did say personal preference. I'm sticking with a reverser because I'm used to it, it works well, and I know how to work on them every four decades if needed. I've used the little Kubota's with a hydro, and while it was not really enough time to become second nature, I didn't like them as much as a reverser. Personal preference.

For fun, I've speced out some new tractors online, and a reverser is still the premium transmission on anything Category 2, and up.

[Tom M King]

Here's a picture of the reverser assembly opened up, with a pair of gloves for size reference. This for the 70hp tractor, and it hadn't been opened up since it was new in 1979, and used hard. This is the forward clutch pack that sits right behind the clutch (disk also seen in picture). There are a number of disks, and pressure plates in the forward clutch pack.

It really didn't have to be rebuilt, but I did since I had it opened up anyway. I had the John Deere dealer replace the clutch, and it never worked right. I found out by luck that they had put the pressure plate back in with bolts that were too long. I had thought mistakenly that it had to be a problem with the reverser, since the clutch was new.

[Tom M King]

To tie it back into woodworking, John Deere wanted several hundred dollars to make a new clutch alignment tool that was no longer in stock, and none of the plastic ones work for this setup, so I turned one on the wood lathe. The tractor couldn't have gone back together any easier. Lathe was in the middle of a shop move, and lathe tools were not here yet, so I used a dull carpenter chisel out of the truck. It was good enough.

I would have turned one out of aluminum, but I didn't have a chunk on hand.

[Ronald Blue]

To tie it back into woodworking, John Deere wanted several hundred dollars to make a new clutch alignment tool that was no longer in stock, and none of the plastic ones work for this setup, so I turned one on the wood lathe. The tractor couldn't have gone back together any easier. Lathe was in the middle of a shop move, and lathe tools were not here yet, so I used a dull carpenter chisel out of the truck. It was good enough.

I would have turned one out of aluminum, but I didn't have a chunk on hand.

Putting a clutch in without an alignment tool is a definite no go. Creative using wood though. Necessity is the mother of invention or so I've heard. Sounds like you do a lot of your own repairs. If you want something done right do it yourself as you learned with your improperly installed clutch pressure plate.

[Rich Riddle]

Don't even consider a tractor without a front end loader....BTW, something I'll never get for a tractor: a belly mower.
JKJ

Thanks for the input. I see so many tractors for sale with only a belly mower and no front end loader. I own a 14 HP "tractor" with a belly mower that is used exclusively for cutting grass, so it's essentially a lawn mower. The irony is that I am having the Continental belly mower repaired this winter.

[John K Jordan]

To tie it back into woodworking, John Deere wanted several hundred dollars to make a new clutch alignment tool that was no longer in stock, and none of the plastic ones work for this setup, so I turned one on the wood lathe… …

Hey, thanks for a memory that had escaped my aging brain. A few decades ago I was changing a clutch in my old Datsun pickup and realized how hard it was to align the replacement, especially while flat on my back under the thing. I had a little mostly-worthless Craftsman tube lathe and decided a wooden alignment tool might work. It worked perfectly!

BTW, the body of that truck was a crumpled mess. When I told a friend I’d bought it new he said “so you did all that to it yourself?!" I never put one dent in it myself but the thing must have been a magnet for people to run into when parked!

JKJ

[Bill Dufour]

One great thing about a real tractor is there is an actual legal definition of horsepower. Not like a sears garden tractor horsepower. I am not sure how asian tractors get rated for horsepower but I would be surprised if they do not just use the Nebraska horsepower test like all north american makers. I believe there is a slightly different metric horsepower test from Germany.
For several decades after WW2 Porsche sold the most tractors in Europe. Not sure when Lamborgini started. Satoh Tractor of japan started in 1914. My brother had one so I learned that. Mitsubishi bought them out in 1980. I think mitsubishi closed down tractor making.
Bill D

[Jim Becker]

Bill, remember, that just like with automobiles, tractor brands' production and parts content is very variable when it comes to physical location and sourcing. Kubota's sold in the US are made in Georgia. Some of Deere's smaller stuff is made elsewhere. It's a global business at this point. There's a remarkably short list of small diesel engine manufacturers that the various tractor brands use, too.

[Bill Dufour]

I do not believe any tractor under 50 hp is made in N. America anymore.
I have read horror stories of "rebuilt" tractor from Vietnam. New paint, new decals, rolled back hour meter and a mismash of used parts to make one that runs long enough to sell it. They buy worn out broken ones too bad to sell as used from Japan.
Bill D

[Ronald Blue]

I do not believe any tractor under 50 hp is made in N. America anymore.
I have read horror stories of "rebuilt" tractor from Vietnam. New paint, new decals, rolled back hour meter and a mismash of used parts to make one that runs long enough to sell it. They buy worn out broken ones too bad to sell as used from Japan.
Bill D

I believe those were referred to as "gray market" machines. I looked into some many years ago. As I recall the biggest issue is even if they were for instance Kubota it was a model that was never sold here. It looked like it could be really sketchy sourcing parts.

[Ronald Blue]

I do not believe any tractor under 50 hp is made in N. America anymore.
I have read horror stories of "rebuilt" tractor from Vietnam. New paint, new decals, rolled back hour meter and a mismash of used parts to make one that runs long enough to sell it. They buy worn out broken ones too bad to sell as used from Japan.
Bill D

John Deere compact utilities are made in Georgia. Many of their diesel models use Yanmar engines.