Open sided wide belt

[Michael Fink]

Anyone have a wide belt sander that has an uncaptured side (allowing you to feed a board though bigger than the platen)? Something like this:

https://www.grizzly.com/products/gri...t-sander/g0819


I'd like to know if there are any big downsides; deflection issues would be my top concern, but anyone with experience to share would be welcome. I have one that I'm looking at for sale, and while it does seem like it would be a good machine for my hobby shop, I have to believe there's some reason all wide belts aren't setup this way, right?

Also, hopefully not running afoul for the rules, but for a sander like pictured (which is very similar) what would you give for a 10 year old model? Looks to be in good shape, owned by a hobbyist. But seems like a lot of expensive things that could fail in this type of machine. New at about 7K, what would get you interested at 10+ years old?

[Darrell Bade]

I have had that model for about 5 years in my hobby shop. I have absolutely no complaints about it, saves a ton of time, makes sanding enjoyable. No deflection that I can detect, it is a heavy duty machine and your only taking off 30 thou or less a pass, no big stresses involved. I have done some wide glueups wider than 15" by flipping and they were fine. I just came up from the shop and used it tonight. Ran 30 board feet through it for some end tables. I join, plane and run through the sander 2 or 3 passes per side with 150 grit on it. To prep for finish I just hit the wood with a ROS with 180 grit on it. It is not a necessity for a hobby shop but I ain't giving it up, wish I had it when I built my kitchen cabinets, would have saved me hours of sanding with a ROS. As far as price, I have no idea in this market, maybe somebody else will help with that. The machine isn't that complex, really not much to go wrong with it unless it just had the snot run out of it.

[Michael Fink]

Well that's encouraging, thank you Darrell. Any idea why all WB sanders aren't cantilevered? Seems like an obvious way to "double" the capacity if there's little/no downside, no? Maybe when you get into the 10HP+ models there would be deflection because they can take off so much on a single pass? The first time I saw one setup with the open side I thought "oh, wow, that makes a lot of sense", but there has to be something "wrong" with it or you'd see it more often (or so I'd think).

I've never used a WB before, nor seen one running, so thank you for the info on it being a pretty simple machine. Seems like it should/would be simple, but, goodness, at the prices these things command, I figured I must be missing something!

Since you have that actual machine, do you have any tips for what I should be looking for as far as wear out parts? Platen, belts I would guess, right? What about bigger stuff, bearings or other major components that you think might be bad and need a looking over if I go to see that machine?

[Carl Beckett]

I have a Jet version of this (16" overhung belt). I like it. It can flip as described, but the key to success when doing the wider panels is to ensure the overhung is supported, etc. That outrigger table is iffy - I use a floor standing support instead. Light passes in general. But it is still pretty stiff even though overhung, not like the small overhung drum sanders (those do deflect a fair but under load)

Have also owned a 25" widebelt. And numerous drum sanders (some overhung some not). This overhung widebelt has been what I converged on after many swaps/upgrades.

Smaller than a bigger widebelt. The larger widebelts are stiffer (not overhung) and most often larger motors, etc, and can take much deeper passes. True commercial machines. If you have space and money just go for one of those and go to town. Perhaps the biggest feedback is to set expectations on how deep a pass you can take with a relatively small but wide sander - just doesnt have the ummpph that the big ones have.

You have to decide if you want a platen or not. I recommend it since it is what the belt rides against at the point the wood hits. Mine has a graphite sheet on it that wears eventually, but not for a long time. There may be models where the wood hits where the belt roller hits (no platen), that might not give quite a nice a finish but I have no side by side experience. the Jet has a single large dia post that moves the table up/down. If they move smoothly together, the Grizzly 4 post design looks better imo. That Grizzly looks quite good overall to me.

Rollers and conveyor belt can age and harden. Again after a long time. Some have electronic tracking and some pneumatic. Mine is pneumatic which works fine but requires air. The 25" model I had a bearing went out on one end - it was made to be easy to replace and was very simple to do (was mounted in a bearing block that unbolted). Again though that was a very old and heavily used machine, I would be shocked if I am able to wear out a bearing (and proud, since it meant I used the heck out of it)

If you are patient the overhung widebelts come up for sale from time to time. I bought mine a few years ago with the RPC for $3k. I think current market you will pay more

As a hobbiest with limited shop space, I will not be trading this one in for some time (if ever). Oh, also I added a digital readout to the thickness height - get one that can be zero'd and you can go back to the same setting over and over.

[Mitch schiffer]

There is a video that goes over the benifts of the grizzly wide belt in comparison to a drum sander on YouTube. Its worth a watch if your considering one. I ended up buying a used 37". I saw a grizzly 15" near me about the same age as the one you were looking at about
a year ago. It was listed for 2250$ https://youtu.be/4oeanPr9RD4

[Darrell Bade]

I would assume the wider wider belt machines are not open ended because the wider you get it is cheaper and easier to have two sides to support the weight rather than a c frame that would need to get beefier (I play the role of a mechanical engineer during the day).

I would just make sure the 3 drums spin freely, conveyor belt is in decent shape. One of the drums is rubber, check it out. The platen is replaceable. You can run the machine with or without the platen, it adjust up and down with a locking lever. If possible run a piece of wood through it, measure each side with calipers to verify it is sanding flat.

It does take air to tension and oscilate the belt but not much. My 60 gallon compressor currently has a hole in the tank and I am running it on my 20 gallon portable compressor. It amazing how long it goes before kicking back on.

Klingspor is a good source for belts.

[Alan Lightstone]

I do regret that my 24 in Grizzly wide belt is closed-ended, and not wide enough. I should have bought the 37 in model, or an open-ended one. I chose not to buy the open-ended one due to concerns regarding deflection issues. There have been more times than I have liked that I needed the extra capcity.

[Jonathan Jung]

If you have the space, I highly recommend getting the biggest closed-end widebelt you can afford, preferably an older italian or german unit like SCMI / Casadei. They are made to run well and be service. Around here they can be had running for $4-8k. The wide belt sander is the most complicated machine you'll have in your shop and you don't want to futz with it.

[Michael Fink]

If you have the space, I highly recommend getting the biggest closed-end widebelt you can afford, preferably an older italian or german unit like SCMI / Casadei. They are made to run well and be service. Around here they can be had running for $4-8k. The wide belt sander is the most complicated machine you'll have in your shop and you don't want to futz with it.

Holy smokes, those are a little out of my size and price range! I'd love to have one, of course, and figure a way to make the 3 phase power required, but, that's just not in the cards. I've gone back and forth with the seller a few times and I think we've arrived at an agreement, going to go down this weekend to look at it (with the intent of brining it home unless he's misrepresented it somehow).

Wow, next problem though. I need to extend my DC to get to where I'm planning to put it (alongside my jointer/planer), holy smokes the price of 6in PVC nearly had me fall out of my chair. Almost 50 bucks a stick?! When I built my shop, a few years ago, it was about 15!!

Glad I bought all the joints I'll ever need when I put the shop together; I have 22.5, 45's, Y's, etc "in stock". Again, good thing, a simple long elbow is almost 40 bucks now. That's insane, the prices for materials is starting to make my head hurt. I'm just so thankful that I have the tools to work with rough lumber, 1-2 dollars a BF is what I typically pay. Lowes/HD is looking for 10+ per BF for something like red oak. I don't know how people can afford these prices?

[Bernhard Lampert]

I have had a Leneave 16" open wide belt sander (3-phase) with platen for about 14 years. Basically it is a carbon copy of a powermatic painted in light grey. From what I saw all the cantilevered 15/16 in widebelts seem to be the same basic design.
Pros: has worked w/o downtime, even used it to sand veneered panels (but that is a bit tricky...good even support for any overhanging is a must)
Cons: height adjustment and repeatability of height adjustment is not all that good (mounted a digital height gauge), takes a lot of turns to adjust for work height
feed rate is not really adjustable (need to change internal gears, since it is 3 phase I have a VFD for the feed motor (just never installed it ), belt hardened and is a bit slippery (looking for a replacement).
As mentined in other responses, key to good results is proper support of the work piece, the little open end sanders just don't have the mass and clamping force keep a larger work piece stable and parallel during sanding.
Overall I am quite happy, only used in a hobby shop. I'd buy it again. Obviously I would prefer a closed end and larger widebelt, but can't justify the expense and also running out of space. One other item you may want to consider is the power consumption: large wide belt need a lot of it. Even my little open wide belt on 3-phase has an in rush curent of about 25 A for about the first 5 sec (load current is around 10-15 A).

Cheers,
Bernhard

[Robert Engel]

I have a Supermax 16/32. Its a well built machine I think its basically the same as Performax or Jet. It has phenomenal dust collection and it hit my price point.

My only complaint about it is I cannot get the conveyor belt to stop wandering. I've ruined 2 so far not paying attention if the edges get damaged it won't track at all.

I've heard of others having the same issue, but also others who don't. The infeed/outfeed tables are a must.

Overall, I would recommend the machine for hobby use, but I would buy it from a local supplier, not online.

[Michael Fink]

[QUOTE=Bernhard Lampert;3175230
Cons: height adjustment and repeatability of height adjustment is not all that good (mounted a digital height gauge), takes a lot of turns to adjust for work height
feed rate is not really adjustable (need to change internal gears, since it is 3 phase I have a VFD for the feed motor (just never installed it ), belt hardened and is a bit slippery (looking for a replacement).
As mentined in other responses, key to good results is proper support of the work piece, the little open end sanders just don't have the mass and clamping force keep a larger work piece stable and parallel during sanding.
Overall I am quite happy, only used in a hobby shop. I'd buy it again. Obviously I would prefer a closed end and larger widebelt, but can't justify the expense and also running out of space. One other item you may want to consider is the power consumption: large wide belt need a lot of it. Even my little open wide belt on 3-phase has an in rush curent of about 25 A for about the first 5 sec (load current is around 10-15 A).

Cheers,
Bernhard[/QUOTE]

Thank you, appreciate the feedback. I'm going to look at (and probably buy) the machine this weekend, so hopefully I'll feel the same about mine.

One quick question, I saw your mention of a DRO, and I really need one of them on my planer and perhaps also the wide belt. Mind sharing what you have (and if you're happy with it)?

[Bernhard Lampert]

Thank you, appreciate the feedback. I'm going to look at (and probably buy) the machine this weekend, so hopefully I'll feel the same about mine.

One quick question, I saw your mention of a DRO, and I really need one of them on my planer and perhaps also the wide belt. Mind sharing what you have (and if you're happy with it)?

It's quite a simple set up. I used one of the inexpensive, caliper-type, readouts and mounted it via an angle bracket to the framt and infeed table. I'll snap a pic and post it.
Cheers,
Bernhard

[Michael Fink]

Well, brought her home on Friday. Piped into the DC on Saturday. Tore down a lot of the machine to check for required maint, 3 things need attention. The platen is shot, the graphite pad on the platen is also shot, and the one that's a bit of bummer, the table extension, one side of it, I cannot get extended. It's stuck about 6in out, should be able to go out around 18 in or so. Not the end of the world, but I'd like to have the additional support for a wider piece, so I may wind up building something to hook to what's there and extend outwards; won't be hard to do, but I'll wait to see if I really want/need it. The table is around 15in, with the few in of extension table I'm already beyond the midpoint of a 30in board, which, of course, is the max capacity of the unit anyway, so may not be necessary. Previous owner obviously never extended it (it is just rusted into position) so may not be necessary at all.

Ordered the replacement felt for the platen from Grizzly. They no longer carry the graphite for the platen, so I went to PEC Friction Fighters and ordered up a roll of their HDI (Heavy Duty Improved) that I'll cut to fit. Doesn't have to be a 100% precise fit, just close enough to cover the new felt and allow me to push the platen down for finer sanding.

The machine is on a pallet and wheels; I typically mount everything hard in my shop, but the additional height is a benefit for this machine as it allows it to clear another machine that would be in the way. So today's task is to lift it a tiny bit off the wheels and put 2x4's under it so it's hard mounted. Also need to level it a bit, it's a bit off; which must be on the pallet because my floor is pretty level.

The port on this machine is a 5in, so I brought a 6in pipe down and did some "engineering" to attach it to the 5in port (glue, screws, spray foam type "engineering").. Figured the faster I get to 6in the better. Seems to work great for dust collection, it's right next to my 5HP collector, so should be PLENTY of flow into this thing. I did some ugly piping though, had to use a 90 and a 45 to avoid changing the overhead pipe around, not thrilled with it, but again, because it's so close to the DC, I think it should get more than enough airflow even with some wonky pipe routing. I'll see if i can snap a picture or two today to add to the thread.

Machine was built in 2004, so almost 20 years old!! Conveyer looks (and works) great; that was my biggest concern, changing the conveyer in these things seems to be a big job, so want to avoid that if at all possible.

Other than that, think I've now joined the wide belt club. With about the smallest wide belt you can possibly have, but hey, I'll take it.

Final thing, the guy I bought it from replaced this one with a 37" Laguna that runs on single phase! Didn't even know they had something available like that, beautiful machine. But the 15K or so they are asking for one puts it firmly out of my price range.

[Darrell Bade]

Don't know what kind of DC pipe you have, I have 6" sewer pipe. I found one of those rubber pipe connectors at Menards that went over the 6" pvc fitting on one side and over a 6" to 5" hose reducer on the other side. Sounds like your done now but fyi for the future.

Your gonna be thrilled being in the wide belt gang, unbelievable how much time they save.