New to Staining...

[Clark Harbaugh]

In my years of furniture building, I've always chosen the wood based on color and character so as to not stain, and just used a natural oil based finish. I'm about to start building custom cabinets for a kitchen remodel that will require some type of custom color finish to achieve what the wife wants. I have 2 questions for the group, since my only experiences with stain have had poor outcomes. Are there any suggestions on reading material or youtube that could give some good guidance? And are there brands of stain that are better or worse to use (i.e. Minwax from the big box vs General from Rockler)?

[Jim Becker]

Using the word "stain" in a very generic way, there are multiple kinds of coloration used for wood. What gets chosen can be greatly influences by the material you are building your cabinetry from. Open pore woods like oak and ash generally work fine with a pigment stain like the Minwax you mention. Closed pore woods like maple, alder and poplar are more amenable to a dye stain. Sometimes you need to use both and something you need to do a multi-step finishing process to get the coloration you need, especially if you are trying to match something existing...

So it will be helpful to folks to understand more about your project; wood species in particular, for folks to help you.

[Clark Harbaugh]

I'll be using Red Oak for the cabinets.

Using the word "stain" in a very generic way, there are multiple kinds of coloration used for wood. What gets chosen can be greatly influences by the material you are building your cabinetry from. Open pore woods like oak and ash generally work fine with a pigment stain like the Minwax you mention. Closed pore woods like maple, alder and poplar are more amenable to a dye stain. Sometimes you need to use both and something you need to do a multi-step finishing process to get the coloration you need, especially if you are trying to match something existing...

So it will be helpful to folks to understand more about your project; wood species in particular, for folks to help you.

[Prashun Patel]

I am all for learning, but learning on kitchen cabinets with the world's most important client might be a tall first order...

You will get more consistent and targeted colors by using dyes - not stains. Dyes are more amenable to blending, diluting and adjusting after application. Stains might blotch (not so much on red oak) but you can't sneak up on a color as with dyes. But dyes typically require some mixing.

Dyes dissolve in water and can be sprayed or flooded on. There are good reasons to do either or both of these.

I would check out Flexner's "Understanding Wood Finishing" and look up online resources from Jeff Jewitt. Jeff's published a great deal in this regard.

[roger wiegand]

Make up a bunch of extra boards from the same lot of wood as your cabinets that you take through exactly the same surface prep processing-- all the same sanding grits etc. You're going to want a bunch of test boards to both try things out and to practice on. To see what the color really looks like you have to then take those boards through the entire finishing schedule-- all the topcoats and any sanding you plan to do. To do otherwise is to invite (usually bad) surprises.

I too have had much more success with dyes than with pigment stains. The metal complex dyes (eg TransTint) hold their color quite reliably. I like using alcohol as the reducer to avoid raising grain.

A slightly easier path, if you're used to oil finishes, might be to use something like a colored Watco oil to get the color you want, let it dry thoroughly, then topcoat with a clear finish. I've found that getting good results with a colored topcoat, at least with brush application, is nearly impossible.

[mark mcfarlane]

... I've found that getting good results with a colored topcoat, at least with brush application, is nearly impossible.

Same experience here, although I only tried it once with a tinted poly.

If the color is in the top coat it has to be applied perfectly uniformly or the color isn't uniform. That's really hard for me to do with a brush. Easier to spray on color, whether in a top coat or an under coat.

[Jim Becker]

Ok, what Roger said is really good advice...testing is important and not just for the stain, but also what will go on top because that does change the color!

For red oak, pigment statins are often used because of the open pore structure and the pigment stains accentuate the wood grain accordingly. If, for some reason, you don't want that effect, then dye might be a better choice. So work with several coloration methods and test, test, test before you commit to your project. Be sure to test on both solid stock and veneered sheet goods as each might require different treatment to get a consistent color.

[John TenEyck]

If you OK with a matte finish then look at Rubio Monocoat; it comes in lots of colors. Here's their color chart on red oak: https://www.rubiomonocoatusa.com/pag...plus-2c-colors

If you need/want gloss, semi gloss, or satin then look at Osmo Oil Stain + PolyOx: https://osmocolorusa.com/product/oil-stain/

Both products are almost foolproof in application.

John

[Clark Harbaugh]

Thanks, guys, for the advice and direction. Great information on using dye vs pigment. My plan definitely includes lots of testing, which I've already started and learned from. I really appreciate the input.

[Clark Harbaugh]

Thabks for the referral to Flexner's book. This is exactly what I was looking for. Great explanations in the differences, common mistakes, etc.

I am all for learning, but learning on kitchen cabinets with the world's most important client might be a tall first order...

You will get more consistent and targeted colors by using dyes - not stains. Dyes are more amenable to blending, diluting and adjusting after application. Stains might blotch (not so much on red oak) but you can't sneak up on a color as with dyes. But dyes typically require some mixing.

Dyes dissolve in water and can be sprayed or flooded on. There are good reasons to do either or both of these.

I would check out Flexner's "Understanding Wood Finishing" and look up online resources from Jeff Jewitt. Jeff's published a great deal in this regard.

[Tom Bender]

Oak has really bold grain and it gets bolder with stain. That makes grain matching really important. I would plan on paying top dollar for the wood and 50% scrap to get a premium look. I know it's not what you want to hear but at least it's early in the project.