Shop Build...should be a fun journey...

[Bob Riefer]

I've seen you mention a couple times your preference for closed cell foam, and I wanted to find out the scoop. My rudimentary (and potentially inaccurate) understanding was that in moderate temperature zones (like ours), where depth of insulation isn't a big deal (i.e., a deep bay on a pole barn), strength of structure is already-sufficient, and where vapor control (as in a cathedral ceiling) isn't needed... that open cell is a very good and cost effective choice. (conversely, extreme weather areas, shallow insulation bays, structures that could benefit from extra rigidity, or vapor control situations call for closed)

edited to add: I thought I had also read that open cell blocks noise transmission.

[Jim Becker]

Bob, closed cell spray foam has twice the R-value per inch, provides significant sealing and vapor control (which I want for conditioned space) and also adds stiffness to the structure. There absolutely are some sound benefits to open cell over closed, especially if it's scraped flush with framing, but I'm doing other sound mitigation work already. The plan is for 2" on the walls and gables and 3" on the underside of the roof as that provides adequate R-value for our climate, especially with it cutting off air infiltration in a big way. For a post frame structure, the additional stiffness it adds to the metal cladding makes for a quieter building, especially when it's windy. Open cell foam really isn't popular in this area from what I've been able to see.

As an asides, the 2200 square foot home addition at our previous property (bigger than our current house!) was done entirely with closed cell foam and the performance was outstanding. And for that stick built structure, it meant walls could be lower cost 2x4 other than those that needed the extra depth of 2x6 for certain kinds of infrastructure.

[Jim Becker]

Communication with the inside project manager yesterday indicates that the schedule is still holding for material delivery and "drilling" on the 8th followed by the actual build on the 12th and part of the 13th. At that point the "dance" with electrical service, concrete prep (contractor), foam on the floor (me), concrete pour and then insulation commences.

[james manutes]

The two biggest "rabbit holes " one can debate ? I'd say dust collection and open cell vs. closed cell foam . I wouldn't use open cell directly on metal , as it's not a moisture barrier . Opinions do vary .

[Jim Becker]

The two biggest "rabbit holes " one can debate ? I'd say dust collection and open cell vs. closed cell foam . I wouldn't use open cell directly on metal , as it's not a moisture barrier . Opinions do vary .

Yes, open cell shouldn't go directly on metal because of condensation issues while closed cell "melds" with it and will not allow condensation to form.

[Adam Herman]

great that you have a build date. i'm hoping they stick to it for you.

[Tom Bender]

It's the 22nd of December

[Terry Therneau]

Jim,
One option for the floor, that I used, is osb atop a layer of foamular 250 insulation, over the concrete. No sleepers. Definitely easier on the feet than concrete. I've had no issues with weight, including my 1100 lb 26" Moak bandsaw, which I rolled into position using pipes: 250 lbs/sq in holds up a lot. I do have one good size osb dent where I accidentally knocked a 5" metal vise off the bench --- just glad it missed my foot! (I have it mounted on a piece of 2x8 with a 2x4 "T" on the bottom; can quickly slip the 2x4 into my woodworking vise when I need to hacksaw something.)

One other thing that had turned out very handy is a "hard point" in the ceiling sufficient for a hoist. It's 4' inside the large door, allowing me to back the trailer in and pick things off it. All the larger tools came in that way.

Terry T.

[Jim Becker]

Tom, unless something changes, a big truck with "building parts" is arriving on Thursday (8 September) and they are also drilling the holes so they can be inspected prior to the build start on Monday, 12 September. It will be completed, other than the overhead door and gutters the following day.

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Terry, I appreciate that thought, but it's not economical to install a floor over the floor, as it were, for this building. I just don't have the budget for it. I like the idea of a hoist, but again, I don't have the budget to be able to include the required support across a 24' span for that particular thing. My trailer is low and has a tilt bed and a winch fortunately for "move in purposes", although I may bite the bullet and rent a forklift to move the bigger tools from the temporary gara-shop to the new building if I can find a way to do that affordably. (the rental is usually not too bad, but I'd need delivery, too, which can cost as much or more than a one-day machine rental)

[Bryan Lisowski]

Jim hope the schedule holds true, I would be so anxious waiting the last few days. For moving, maybe a place will rent forks for your tractor, if it is local might be able to use your trailer. I was looking to rent a mini excavator and delivery and pickup was more than the actual rental.

[Greg Parrish]

Jim, How about a set of these (or similar from another brand) for your tractor? We have a set that we previously used on a small Teramite and now can put on our JD 310K if needed. Although they are really not rated high enough for full power on our 310k, they still work fine for most anything we would pick up once we adjusted the fit a little. You could use these to load/unload your trailer. Driving all the way door to door would make me nervous about dropping something, but for loading they would probably be just fine.

https://www.palletforks.com/skid-ste...SABEgLQbvD_BwE

[Jim Becker]

Greg, I have pallet forks for my Kubota. But it tops out at about 500 lbs (or less out on the forks) and that's after I "doctored" the hydraulic system to kick pressures up a few notches. My tractor is a sub-compact BX22...it's a mighty beast, but it doesn't have the lifting power for the largest tools. (slider, J/P, CNC) That's where the winch on the trailer comes in. I can carry about 2500 lbs on the trailer if need be and the winch handles the "heavy lifting" as well as provides safety/control. I did use the forks to load a lot of the other gear that it was capable of lifting in combination with my ramps for things that could easily be rolled on and off.

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Received a call from the builder's inside project manager this morning. Dates are holding so this party starts on Thursday with delivery and hole drilling; hole inspection Friday morning and the build on Monday and Tuesday. Overhead door is on the 14th. Other things will get schedule after tha, including electrical and concrete. My electrical contractor is having difficulty sourcing a few things including the big meter pan...it is what it is...

[Greg Parrish]

Greg, I have pallet forks for my Kubota. But it tops out at about 500 lbs (or less out on the forks) and that's after I "doctored" the hydraulic system to kick pressures up a few notches. My tractor is a sub-compact BX22...it's a mighty beast, but it doesn't have the lifting power for the largest tools. (slider, J/P, CNC) That's where the winch on the trailer comes in. I can carry about 2500 lbs on the trailer if need be and the winch handles the "heavy lifting" as well as provides safety/control. I did use the forks to load a lot of the other gear that it was capable of lifting in combination with my ramps for things that could easily be rolled on and off.

Gotcha. That's a big difference for sure. Probably closer to the range of the 20hp Teramite we use to have. We did an awful lot of work with that tractor before moving up to the larger JD. Sometimes I wish we still had it as well for places the JD can't get into. I think our 310k is rated for somewhere around 6,500 lbs lift on the front loader. The rear bucket is even more at something like 9,300 lbs. It has lifted some log sections for the sawmill that required me to fill the front bucket completely with dirt as counter balance to keep the front end on the ground.

Whatever you do, do it safely. Watching your posts over the years I'm sure you will.

[Jim Becker]

It's 23 horse, but structurally a small machine and that brings the limits. "Stock", my bucket tops out at just over 400 lbs. I can push that another hundred to a hundred and a half at this point due to the hydro pressure mod I did...and leveraged that fully while dealing with the 115 ton of stone that went into this project after removing a whole bunch of heavy soil. I wish I would have known about that mod years ago! I have to credit a YouTuber called Biffs Equipment for that idea and process for sure. (It can be done on JD and other sub-compact/compact tractors, too, as it's just manipulating the pressure relief valve to allow more pressure before cutting off)

[Jim Becker]

Delivery driver called me late this afternoon...he's arriving at about 06:30. Sheesh...I guess I'll have to roll out of bed a little earlier than normal. LOL But it's worth it!