Shopfox Planer Molder

[James Manning]

Keith,

Thought I would say hello to all,

and see if I could add to this thread as I have not posted but one time before back when I got my MM bandsaw. I have had the single speed SF like yours since mid last year. I just built a new house and bought it to run all the trim with. Well job schedule and health set me back and I ended up having it done. I have since ran mouldings on mine and have been extremely impressed with the quality of this machine. After trying to set the guide rails up straight to the cutters I saw Norm run some moulding on his W&H and it looked like he attached the wooden guide rails to a 1/4 piece of ply and then c-clamped it to the table, I tried this and it works
great. I plan on making this setup for all my cutters.

Also I see that lately people have been following along while others have been building new shops. I hope to start construction on my stand-alone 24x32 shop this week, I will grab some photo's as we go along and post them.

[Paul Simmel]

James,

>>> After trying to set the guide rails up straight to the cutters I saw Norm run some moulding on his W&H and it looked like he attached the wooden guide rails to a 1/4 piece of ply and then c-clamped it to the table,

Did you index your base to the two uprights somehow? And, any sort of laminate on the bottom for a “slicker” ride?

Thanks,

Paul

[Keith Outten]

Paul,

I would guess that paste wax on the quarter ply would be slick enough but I just purchased a couple of the slick UHM cutting boards to make a couple of sleds. I don't know how long they will last but I expect a long time since there doesn't seem to be a lot of friction.

As soon as I can get a drawing done I plan to make my UHM sleds on my ShopBot router and machine a key for the sled to the rails. This way I can just slide the sled on the cast iron bed and clamp it down and be ready to go in minutes. I expect my sled bases will work on the W&H machine as well since they are just about identical. If someone with a W&H would provide the diameter of the posts and center to center dimentions I can verifiy whether my sled will fit both machines.

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[Paul Simmel]

Thank you, Keith.

[John Weber]

Seems sort of sad an importer like Grizzly can basically contract an Asian company to manufacturer a copy the W&H machine. I wonder if it will have a long term effect on W&H or not. I doubt Grizzly can provide the technical expertise W&H does, or maybe they can just call them when they have questions.

Sorry to hijack the thread, but I don’t see much innovation or benefit. If W&H thought it was in there best interest to produce the machine overseas I guess they could have done it as well, but instead choose to keep the skills, workforce, and quality in the US. I’m glad Keith was able buy a machine he likes. However, very soon we may not have a choice of an American designed and built machine, but only an imported copy.

I’ve seen some very good innovation come from imported equipment, SawStop comes to mind, as does some of the newer Powermatic machines. Just wondering where the path we are on will lead.

John

[Keith Outten]

John,

I heard that the patent had expired on the W&H machine. ShopFox added a larger motor and a killer stand to their machine with a varible speed option. The price of the W&H was just too steep for me, otherwise I would have bought one twenty years ago.

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[Bob Dodge]

John,

I wouldn't worry too much about W&H. They have a well-established reputation, and use top-grade components. However, that also translates to "cost". I just don't see the Shop-Fox and the W & H targeted to the same market. I'm sure there will be some overlap, but I'm equally certain most well-established pros would choose the W & H for the implied added refinement and durability.

I'm not saying the Shop-Fox is inferior, I'm just pointing out that the components are not the same. The W & H will come with either a Baldor or Leeson motor for example. The W & H accepts 1/4" tooling, and the knives are superb. Output is glass-smooth. I've never seen the Shop-Fox, other than over the internet, so I can't comment. I'm assuming the S-F also accepts 1/4" tooling. I will be paying close attention to Keith's results. I've been looking for a molder for a while now, and very undecided on which way to go.

Bob

[Paul Simmel]

John,

I’m a consumer.

Bob,

The tooling specs are exactly the same… only steel quality may become an issue depending upon who supplies knives… but that isn’t peculiar.

In general:

I do not have any guilt purchasing the machine nor the cutters from anyone, anywhere, who will exact the same or better ‘standard’. This is life.

[Bob Dodge]

Paul,

Thanks for that reply. I'm presuming that the "indexing" is identical too, would you know if that is correct? Would the W & H knives be interchangeable? When I called W & H a few weeks ago, they told me they use M-2 steel. I'd probably order a few "blanks", and have them machined locally.

I'm going to look around for a Shop-Fox distributor in Canada. I appreciate your post Paul, and enjoy your new machine.

Thanks,

Bob

[Bill Simmeth]

If someone with a W&H would provide the diameter of the posts and center to center dimentions I can verifiy whether my sled will fit both machines.

Keith...

The W&H posts are 1-5/8" diameter. Center-to-center on the posts is 6".

If your sleds fit, I'd like to learn more about them.

[John Shuk]

How many of us are using IBM branded computers? They pretty much invented the pc. I'm using an Apple tho . There is a reason patents expire.

[brent lenthall]

When I was in the market for a molder, I looked closely at the SF and W&H. I was also interested in the variable speed option with the SF. In the end a couple of things swayed my decision to go the the W&H.

1. Reliability. Talking with my knife supplier (sells SF and W&H). He said , "The Shop Fox is half the money and half the machine". This supplier mainly works with small to mid size custom cabinet and millwork companies. He referenced several SF machines had problems with the feed drive. Also, the variable speed on the Shop Fox is an unproven design. I believe the variable speed option by W&H is close to the one that has been offered by Shmidtt(sp?) for a while.

2. Resale: I looked on ebay and in the local market for a W&H molder. When they were available used, they brought top dollar. On ebay 20 year old machines with a couple of sets of knives were selling for $1,200 +. For a $1,800 machine, that's very good.

In the end, I bought a 2 yr. old machine with the elyptical jig and 15 sets of knives from a cabinet company that upgraded to a multi head machine. With many WW machine purchases you can find imports with different paint that are made in the same factory as Powermatics, Delta, etc. However in this case I don't think it's an apple to apple comparision when the W&H is still being produced in the US (for over 50 yrs.) by the company that designed it.

FYI/Disclamer: I'm not a buy US only guy. I drive a Toyota and have several tools in the shop made in Taiwan. I have seen the SF molder in person (IWF show in Atlanta) and it looks like a beefy machine.

[lou sansone]

best wishes on a nice addition to the shop. Like the others have said... I am very interested in the results.

lou

[Paul Simmel]

Bob,

>>> I'm presuming that the "indexing" is identical too, would you know if that is correct?

The knives are identical according to the machinist I posted upon earlier, who grinds these knives for both SP and W&H. Please see: http://www.customouldingknives.com/

>>> Would the W & H knives be interchangeable? When I called W & H a few weeks ago, they told me they use M-2 steel. I'd probably order a few "blanks", and have them machined locally.

Firstly, I’d not worry about steel quality and just order your knives from whomever you ultimately decide to go with.

From the above website:

“All Moulding Knives are made from M2 HSS and are
finish ground and balanced to within .1 gram of each
other. Corrugated knives are available in higher grades
such as T1 and V3N.

From what I have been able to determine, and rightfully so for their ingenious machine, W & H has been and probably still is GOD in terms of a small moulder. They were rightfully granted their patents, and they rightfully produced this machine under patent protection. And bless them for the above… and I’d pull the trigger on a W&H machine in a heartbeat… and was fully prepared to do so for several years… but if the Shop Fox is a clone I’m going to gravitate to the less-than-half price and spend the extra thousand on something else.

Like I said, I’m a consumer. This machine has always been in my plan, regardless of price. But I’m not going to spend $2500, plus $285 for crown knives when I can get the same quality machine for $1200 and custom profiled knives for $165.

Bob, you’re in Canada. Can’t get Grizzly up there?

http://www.grizzly.com/products/G0488

I am going to order the SF machine, and try the above linked knife supplier with no guilt or reservations. I anticipate my new house will have some wonderful 5.5” –6.0” crown.\


And yes,

>>> There is a reason patents expire.

Paul

[Keith Outten]

Keith...

The W&H posts are 1-5/8" diameter. Center-to-center on the posts is 6".

If your sleds fit, I'd like to learn more about them.

Thanks Bill,

My ShopFox is the same dimention as the W&H so the sleds should be interchangeable. I will get back to you ASAP with a Private Message.

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