When to pull the plug on an electrician?

[Jim Koepke]

As one comment mentioned, don't skimp on the ground rod.

My advice on ground rods and wiring is to not use any aluminum connectors. (not sure if they are legal)

Many problems with aluminum wiring and connector clamps. Aluminum can passivate over time. (meaning it can become nonconductive)

Once when trying to explain this to an engineer, he told me, "you can't know that." He was one of the dumbest engineers of my acquaintance. Though it does seem people with higher degrees often have difficulty dealing with 'average' problems.

jtk

[Brian Elfert]

Aluminum wire for service entrances has been used for years with minimal issues. There is some debate if antioxidant paste is required, but I used it when I had aluminum wires for my service entrance. You do have to make sure the connections are torqued properly. (One of the aluminum feed wires coming into my load center was loose when I bought the house so I pulled it out and put no-ox on it before I tightened it up.) The aluminum wire used for high amperage stuff is not the same as the old aluminum branch wiring from the 1970s. Power companies use a lot of aluminum since it is cheaper than copper.

I chose to use copper between my meter base, emergency disconnect switch, and load center when I replaced everything. The extra cost was like $30 on a project that cost over $1,000.

[Jim Becker]

Use of aluminum for service entrance and other large amperage connections has become nearly ubiquitous in the trade. Use of the paste and properly tightening down the connections as he mentioned is part of that. Even in 2005 when I had the service upgraded (professionally) to 400 amps with a 200 amp feed to the shop building incorporated aluminum for the feeds. Same here for both my temp shop sub-panel and our whole house generator install. The masthead drop here to the meter is also aluminum and was installed in 1993 when the house was built. The 50 amp circuits for the range and dryer are also aluminum feeds, all professionally installed. As to cost, the price of copper wire is "painful" right now, even for the normal 10, 12 and 14 gage product used for typical circuits. For feeders...you practically need a second mortgage to afford it!

[Zachary Hoyt]

I didn't look at 2/0 copper SER cable, but 2/0 single wires were over $5 a foot, and single aluminum 4/0 wires were under $2 a foot, so it's a pretty big difference for my job.

I got an email today that the place where I had ordered the 4/0 aluminum SER cable on Saturday is out of stock and had canceled that part of my order, so I found another place that is about $75 more and am hoping that they actually have it in stock, or if they don't that they at least let me know a bit faster.

[Jim Becker]

I didn't look at 2/0 copper SER cable, but 2/0 single wires were over $5 a foot, and single aluminum 4/0 wires were under $2 a foot, so it's a pretty big difference for my job.

That was about what the electrician who did my generator project indicated. He also had to go to five different supply houses to get all the stuff he needed and was still happy he had some spare feeder available in his scrap collection. (he doesn't throw wire out at this point) They even reused the conductors they removed from the main panel to the meter to do the connections between the meter and the transfer switch after pulling a hunk of four wire from the transfer switch into the main panel which effectively became a subpanel. (sorry about that long sentence...) No waste over a foot or three long for them in today's market conditions!

[lowell holmes]

I'm late to this discussion, but the big box stores can probably give you a lead to finding an electrician or an electrical supply house can.

[Zachary Hoyt]

Even if I could find an electrician who wasn't a jackleg they'd be booked out pretty far. I called 5 on Friday and left messages, and the only one that called back is the one who is also an inspector and who very kindly answered several questions. He seems very nice, but even to get an inspection scheduled with him would take about a week, so I would think it might be a month or two before he'd have time to do the job. Time is not on my side in this situation anymore.

[Frank Pratt]

I use aluminum for feeders whenever I possibly can. If it's more than just a few feet long, it's gonna be aluminum. Reliability is never an issue if it's correctly installed.

[Zachary Hoyt]

I put the new service in this week, and it took about a day and a half, though 4 hours of that time was digging trenches to bury the ground rods 2 feet deep. I have bedrock at about 3 feet all around that end of the house, seemingly. The inspector is going to come and inspect on Thursday morning, so I am hoping that it will be acceptable, or that whatever fixes are needed are relatively simple. I had never worked with wire this fat before and found it very stiff and unyielding, but I hope from now on I'll only have to work with smaller wires on this job. I'm very grateful for the advice from folks on this forum to go ahead and do the installation myself. I haven't added the numbers in detail yet but it looks like doing the work might have saved me $1500 or more, even with the higher cost of materials, and it has certainly gotten done sooner than if I had had to wait for another electrician to have an opening.

[Jim Becker]

Nice work, Zachary!!

[Steve Jenkins]

Looks good.

[Bill Dufour]

A. conduit hickey might help with big cables.
Bill D

[Frank Pratt]

I suggest you strip off and pull up a few inches of slack into the panel so you have a bit of a loop of wire connecting to the lugs. It is not unheard of at all for there to be a suboptimal connection to develop there, damaging the insulation. If you have that loop it's a very simple matter of cutting off the damage and reterminating. It there's no loop, it's quite another matter.

[Zachary Hoyt]

Thank you all very much. I hadn't heard of a conduit hickey so I looked it up, and it does look useful. I have an EMT bender, but that wouldn't have helped. I don't think I could make a loop with this wire, it is very stiff. I was pushing sideways on the cable below the box with my knee to get those four cable ends to go into their respective lugs, it took both hands to steer the wires. Also I don't know if I would have room in the box if I made a loop there, as I'll have some smaller wires that need to pass through that space on their way back to the floor to go to other parts of the house by way of the basement. If I need a bit more cable in the box I should be able to push it in from the basement, possibly.

[Steve Jenkins]

If you are going to run more wires below the floor I’d open one of the knockouts on the bottom of the box and drop either a 3/4 or 1” piece of conduit below the floor.