When to pull the plug on an electrician?

[Kev Williams]

One thing that I have been wondering about is whether the drop from the pole to the meter box is still live...

Not sure how it's done elsewhere, but on the pole behind our house is a transformer, fed from a 7700v line atop the pole, that feeds the main lines for 3 houses, ours and the neighbors before and after us. Looks like every 3 houses share a transformer.

Between the 7700v line and the transformer is a hinged knife switch circuit breaker, the knife blade appears to be about 18" long, and the opposite end the blade from the hinge is a hole for a fiberglass pole-hook the power co. guys use to open and close the switch. If a short develops- such as the wind blowing the three main 110v wires enough they hit each other, the short will 'spit out' the knife, opening the circuit. I watched that happen several years ago...

Anyway-- if your pole has a transformer, and a knife switch, and it's 'shut', chances are you have power from the pole to the meter box. You could also just test the box with a volt-meter...

Just found a pic-
powerpole.jpg
I circled the knife-switch, most of it is hidden by the pole...

[Zachary Hoyt]

Thanks, that's very interesting. It looks like a giant version of the switch we have for the electric fence. I'll have to have a look next time I'm up there. I didn't pay as much attention to that stuff as I should have when I was thinking someone else would be doing that job.

[Alan Lightstone]

... The only downside is that it's physically larger by a magnitude which makes routing it a whole bunch of fun. Even the short length from the generator transfer switch to our main panel was a two person exercise when the generator went in recently!! The sizing requirement for 200 amp service is "big".

How big is big? Our 200 amp line is buried underground and I never saw the size of the wires. Just curious...

[Jim Becker]

How big is big? Our 200 amp line is buried underground and I never saw the size of the wires. Just curious...

Three wire service cable can fit in 2" conduit, if I'm not mistaken, but the space isn't generous. Note this is an anecdotal statement and may not be 100% accurate.

-----

Zachary, your conversation here is giving me to serious consideration of doing my own work for the electrical for my shop should I choose to get a separate service from the power company...it would certainly be more budget friendly for me and I'm comfortable with doing the actual work.

Kev, many of those circuit interrupters are now automated here in our area....it permits automated rerouting for faster recovery from an outage for the majority of households that might normally be affected. It's all networked together so a break or short gets isolated pretty quickly. There are still a bunch of manual disconnects, however, but less and less of them as the months pass by.

[Zachary Hoyt]

I went to Syracuse today and bought a bunch of odd things for the house and workshop, but when I went to Home Depot to buy a Square D QO panel I got the last one and when I got to the checkout they said it couldn't be sold and took it away, so that was a bit of a setback. I'll have to look into getting one online, or at an electrical supply house.

On the brighter side I got a nice (although purple) new exterior door to use in the workshop. It's mostly glass and is double pane and low E, so that seems good, and the only downside is I'll have to drill the holes for the knob. They also had 5# boxes of 3-1/4" framing nails and 3-1/2" galvanized spiral nails for $3 a box, and I bought 150 pounds worth for $90. They should work nicely for the siding on the workshop and woodshed, and the price was right.

[Bill Dufour]

Couldn't be sold?

[Jim Becker]

I bought the sub panel for my temporary shop off Amazon...it was a decent price. Now wire...the local electrical supply is more reliable at this point.

[Zachary Hoyt]

I went to the self checkout and scanned it, and the screen said wait for an attendant. When he came he said there was a stop sale order on that item, and carried it away to some hidden lair behind a counter. I was not very well pleased about it, but I have now ordered something similar but slightly older NOS on eBay for a bit less money. I'm going to order a meter main soon, but first I need to find out from the utility if they want a ring or ringless meter box. I didn't know there was such a distinction, and I have no idea which kind their meters require. Life seems very complicated sometimes.

I looked on Amazon and for the thing I was looking for the price seemed to be pretty high at that moment, but I know they go up and down a lot on there. I have not had much luck with the Amazon search function, so maybe a better deal was there and I missed it through ignorance.

[Michael Schuch]

I found an electrician who lives in the town and called him last November. He came out the same day and looked at the job, which I thought was pretty impressive. He said he would put together a quote, but it took a few weeks and some hassling from me to get a quote of $3400 to install a Square D QO 200 amp panel inside, a cut off panel outside, and to get a new line run from the pole to the house (maybe 30 feet or so) and to get the power company to hook it up and turn the power on.

There is no way he will EVER do that work for $3400 (even though $3400 sounds fair to both parties to me). The labor rates on this type of work has gone up considerably since last November (at least around here they have). Time to move on!

I would install the 200amp panel myself but that is just me. Let the power company pull the new service to your house. You will probably need an electrical inspector to sign off on the new panel before the power company will agree to pull the new service.

[Lawrence Duckworth]

I would ask the power company if they provide the meter socket/disconnect. When I built my shop the power company supplied the service disconnect/meter combo, they also buried 450 foot high volt entrance cable from the road, set a transformer on a pad and from there they pulled underground conduit up to the disconnect, they did about the same thing when we built the house. maybe it's something they don't make public or volunteer...but it won't hurt to ask.

[Zachary Hoyt]

It's a good question. I found a helpful graphic explaining what is the utility's responsibility to maintain and what is the homeowner's and it appears from that that they provide the wire drop from the pole to the attachment point, and also the meter, but the wire and conduit down the wall, the attachment point itself and the meter box and all wiring beyond it are the homeowner's problem.

[Bill Dufour]

Note that then power company gets to use different rules about wire size etc. From the weatherhead down has to follow NEC.
Bill D

[Zachary Hoyt]

That's interesting to know. I guess I don't mind what rules they have to follow as long as they send me electricity when the time comes. I submitted a form last night and will call and try to talk with them today about the whole situation.

[Jim Becker]

It's a good question. I found a helpful graphic explaining what is the utility's responsibility to maintain and what is the homeowner's and it appears from that that they provide the wire drop from the pole to the attachment point, and also the meter, but the wire and conduit down the wall, the attachment point itself and the meter box and all wiring beyond it are the homeowner's problem.

That's how it is here, too. From the connection point up at the mast-head for overhead feed (or equivalent for a buried connection) the property owner bears all responsibility other than the actual meter.

[carey mitchell]

As one comment mentioned, don't skimp on the ground rod. Two bad experiences; in our first house in the 70s, we had constant issues, lights popping in storms, etc. A neighbor offered to help. We removed the panel as he wanted to make sure the bolts and connections were tight. One bus bar bolt simply rotated - the "electrician" had stripped the threads and stuck some lamp cord wire into the hole and put in the bolt - the amazing part was that it had not even overheated. The second part was that the ground wire went down and was hanging in the air under the floor, not connected to anything ! We put in a 10 ft. ground rod and a whole house surge suppressor and never had another problem.

A relative asked me last year to look at the wiring in the old family home, built in 1910; nobody had lived ther ein 25 years. Again, constantly popping bulbs. I immediately looked at the ground rod, which was a galvanized pipe with a clamp. I stuck my meter probes from the rod to the wire and got an open circuit, major corrosion, zero ground.

In neither case had there ever been an inspection. Grounds are important, don't skimp.