Shaper - Davis & Wells

[andrew whicker]

Hi,

I found a 'reasonably priced (?)' (read: post pandemic wise - $900) shapers made by Davis Wells that look in great condition. They are 3/4" spindle, 2 HP, single phase.

I want the possibility of making doors, but in the immediate future I'd like to simply add T & G to some 1/2 or 3/4 lumber and make rails and stiles for cabinetry.

Spindle size seems to be a very big aspect of making a decision on a shaper. Does 3/4 allow a wide selection of bits? Is 2 HP enough to do a 1.5" thick door or is it stretching the machine too much?

I'd have to pick up a power feeder, as these don't come with power feeders.

[al ladd]

I had one briefly--I cannabilized it for its table for an old Rockwell overarm router that had a ridiculously small table. the DW shaper table was a surreally easy conversion for the purpose. I sold the innards afterwards. I'm sure it would have been a capable shaper...

but with a small shaper, it's nice to have a router spindle for 1/2" router bits, so I'd wait for a small used Grizzly or the like. The 3/4" spindle is fine, but router bit capability is really nice to have.
Here in New England used shapers are cheap and abundant.

[Mike Kees]

Andrew , are you going to be using this machine for a business ? If so I would say that you will very likely out grow this size of machine quickly. There are lots of sources of 3/4'' tooling. I would suggest buying 1 1/4'' tooling only and just bush it on a 3/4'' spindle. The reason is tooling is very expensive and when you upgrade you keep the tooling. (1 1/4'') My first shaper was a 3 h.p. with 3/4'' and 1 inch spindles as well as a router collet. I used that machine for about 10 years before moving on. About half of the time it was used with router bits before I bought a CMT aluminum Euro block cutter head . I would have sold it sooner but it was one of two machines for quite awhile. My advice is to look for a machine with 5 h.p. motor minimum and 1 1/4'' spindle if this is going to be used in a business setting. If hobby that Davis & Wells would do the trick.

[Phillip Mitchell]

I agree with Mike. I‘m not a shaper guru, but my experience tells me that 1 1/4” spindle and 5 HP is a logical place to start with a pro level shaper and even that will be limited with what it can do once you start to see the wide world of tooling and possibilities.

Am I reading your post right in assuming that it’s (2) identical shapers for $900? Even still I don’t know how much value long term that size will be, but if you have the space and they are in decent condition that’s not a bad deal. What do the fences looks like? 2hp is kinda thin. What speeds can the spindle be run at? A 3/4” spindle 2 hp machine will do smaller things fine as long as the spindle runs true and the fence isn’t terrible, but larger tooling isn’t happening on a smaller machine like that. Most people see what a shaper is really capable of and upgrade to the largest machine they can reasonably obtain or more than one shaper (at least one larger 5HP + machine) for different setups and options.

My “little” shaper is an older SCM L’invincibile T100. 5 HP, 3 phase, 2 speed motor (6k and 12k) It came to me with a 1” spindle and I used bushings on 1 1/4” tooling for a few months until I (very fortunately) located an exact 1 1/4” replacement on the used market. This took some patience and a lot of searching and in the end it was luck from a seller in CA that had a T-100 for sale and was willing to let go of the 1 1/4” spindle and sold it to me. I can run tooling up to around 225mm with this machine which is useful but not unlimited. The low speed being 6k is a limiting factor. I got it in late 2020 with an 8 speed, 1.5hp, 3 wheel feeder (that needed new wheels) for around $500 in IRS auctions (after fees) and probably out another $400 in it between spindle, tires, etc to get it road ready. Not sure that pricing is still around these days, though.

One day I will find the right deal on a heavy duty 7.5hp+ shaper with tenoning table and be a happy camper with that added to the stable, but that is a different price range than what you’re talking about.

A buddy of mine has one of the 3 spindle Weaver shaper with a feeder mounted in the middle that can swing to any/all spindles and he keeps it setup for doing cabinetry related stuff. Pretty sweet setup for that, but usually fairly $$ even used. I was certainly jealous of the versatility.

As far as feeders, if you find a used one (or maybe even a new one with crappy tires) - Western Roller is who you want to talk to and order replacement feeder tires from.

[Jared Sankovich]

From what I've heard the Davis and wells are more substantial in the quill/spindle than the similarly sizes Delta HD or powermatic 26/27.

That said I'll echo the comments above about 1.25" tooling and bigger machines (size and weight) being better overall. 5hp is a good compromise on power requirements and power.

The thing about shapers is, it's what's under the hood that counts. Not hp directly, the overall heft of the build. The little powermatic/Delta shapers came in 5hp but were originally designed as 1.5 or 2hp machines. The spindle assembly is just not up to the rigors of that level.

[Phillip Mitchell]

Jared is right, of course. I was generalizing by using motor HP as a comparison factor, but quill/spindle stoutness and overall weight are probably better indicators of quality/capability.

Do you have any photos of the Davis and Wells shaper both inside and out?

[Will Boulware]

I have one of these shapers in a similar configuration (2 hp 3 phase), so here's a few thoughts.

Double check the spindle size. These were sold as 1" spindle machines, though some have since taken a trip to the machine shop to get that turned down to 3/4. Why you'd do that is beyond me. I run 1.25" cutters on my 1" with t bushings, and have had no trouble out of this setup.

This is NOT a delta/powermatic class shaper. The table size is small, and the machine body isn't much heavier than the tin-can level of sheet metal that most 3/4" import shapers exhibit, but the spindle is in a much heavier class. The bearings are much, much bigger, and they're an open oil bath design with a pump at the bottom of the spindle that circulates the oil. Pretty great design, IMHO. Mine runs incredibly smoothly. I use it for pattern routing, edge profiling, and other general shaper stuff. You can't crank a power feeder wide open and run parts at production speed all day with a 2 hp motor, but it WILL do what it sounds like you're asking of it, and it'll do it well. I've seen these with a 5 hp motor, as the spindle is more than stout enough to handle one. Again, a personal opinion, the Delta/Powermatic design was not strong enough for this size motor even though it was sold with one.

As others have said, you need to assess this based on your situation. If you're a cabinet shop making parts all day long, you obviously need the biggest, strongest, fastest, most efficient machine you can get in order to maximize productivity. If you build one-off furniture or are doing an odd project here and there, I wouldn't shy away from this just because of the motor size. Adjust your feed rate and use some common sense - your average Unisaw is not a straight line rip saw, but plenty of people rip plenty of parts on them day in and day out. What do you realistically need here? Cabinet doors and some 3/4 T&G would be no problem. If you're doing entry doors for more than just your own residence, you should really be looking for one of the bigger machines discussed above.

Edit: One more thing to think about - you asked a pretty open-ended question about tooling, so I'll pass along the advice I got from several people who do a lot more shaper work than I do. Figure out what you want to do with this machine and figure out what your budget is. Buy the tooling you need out of that budget, and spend whatever's left over on the shaper itself.

Do a BUNCH of homework on tooling before deciding which machine to buy, and that budget you came up with will probably grow after you dig through a few online catalogs and start to get an idea of what cutters you need.

[Mike Kees]

Will thanks for the first hand information on these Davis & wells shapers, I will store that in my "hard drive" it may come in useful someday. The only place I have ever seen one is on Ebay. Your take on buying the tooling first and shaper later is solid. I was very fortunate when I purchased my Minimax T50 used off a guy ,I ended up with all his tooling as well. That set me up with just about everything needed and saved me lots of money.

[Michael Schuch]

My first shaper was a vintage Walker Turner with a 3/4" spindle. It does great for the majority of my shaper needs.

Several years later I got a great deal on a sliding table Jet shaper with a 1.25" spindle that needed new bearings. I was able to order a new 3/4" spindle for the Jet shaper. No such availability for my older shaper.

I would tell you to look on CraigsList but I just did for Utah and you are right, there is nothing!