Jointing frustration

[Jim Koepke]

If you are gluing up, put the roughly flattened faces together in the vice and plane both mating edges at once. Any deviation from 90* will be canceled out.

Besides the OP's mention of the stock being 8/4 popular (how many of us have planes to work two pieces held together of this width?) this method always sounds a bit off to me.

Yes, side to side angular deviations are canceled.

Any vertical deviations are multiplied.

On Shooting Boards

Here is a thread, over a decade old, that includes one long edge shooting board > https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?92355

A lot of old images in woodworking publications show a plane being used with a bench hook for shooting work. The bench top is the ramp.

jtk

[Kevin Jenness]

Any vertical deviations are multiplied.
jtk

What does that mean? If the faces are flat and clamped together the edges will be brought in plane within reason. One pass on each 8/4 piece after they are planed together should make an acceptable joint.

[Tom Trees]

Material deflection may play a part if this 2" stock for the chair seat is being laminated with more than just a few pieces.

[Warren Mickley]

If you plane the two pieces to be joined at the same time as you suggest and you plane them both .002 hollow, for example, then when you put them together the gap is doubled to .004.

[Jim Koepke]

Any vertical deviations are multiplied.
jtk

What does that mean? If the faces are flat and clamped together the edges will be brought in plane within reason. One pass on each 8/4 piece after they are planed together should make an acceptable joint.

Two faces of 8/4 stock clamped together becomes about 4" wide. That makes it difficult to fully engage both pieces in a single pass of a plane.

Taking into account all possibilities that may be involved (after all, some feel a #4 is the only plane one needs) an inexperienced person might plane both pieces to be bowed, a not uncommon occurrence even with a longer plane.

Warren points out what can happen with a hollow spot in the middle.

[QUOTE=Warren Mickley;3188875]If you plane the two pieces to be joined at the same time as you suggest and you plane them both .002 hollow, for example, then when you put them together the gap is doubled to .004.[/QUOTE

jtk

[Scott Clausen]

If the boards are generally flat, you could make a jointing sled to use a fine rip blade on a table saw I suppose. But this always get back to "I can flatten the face faster than I could do all of that". If they can hold a similar vertical in the vise chop (Not sure how rough these are)winding sticks and a strait edge should work well. I guess I am a little OCD about this. I want to see that gap where jointed fully to make sure there is no light or places a feeler gauge can slide in. In my world it means a solid 90 degree corner at that point, just me not telling anyone how to process wood.

[steven c newman]

Was taught, when doing a panel...to lay out all the boards as to where they will be in the panel.....make a mark across to keep them in order...then "fold" them up like a paper map...Clamp them together...then joint the edges....both sides of the "sammich"....then un-fold and check for gaps.....no gaps? Glue it up...

Let the plane tell you when you are done....one shaving the length of the boards...or, in the case of a panel....2-3-4 shavings.....which is why a Stanley No. 8 was as wide as it was...2-5/8"....

Also...it helps IF the grain in all the boards is running the same direction...

[Derek Cohen]

You are depending on the flatness of the bench top, the flatness of the plane side and the squareness of the plane. and if you clamp a board that is not flat it distorts. Lots of sources for error and what we call compounding errors.
…..

Of course it can depend on the flatness of a bench. You do keep your bench flat, don’t you?

If your bench is not flat, then lay a sheet of MDF across the surface to create a flat top for this purpose.

NOTE: this is just one of several ways to do the same task. There is a “best and only method”. Add all the methods you can to your armoury. Use the most appropriate one when the time comes.

Regards from Perth

Derek. (see my earlier post in this thread if confused what this method is about)

[Luke Dupont]

Was taught, when doing a panel...to lay out all the boards as to where they will be in the panel.....make a mark across to keep them in order...then "fold" them up like a paper map...Clamp them together...then joint the edges....both sides of the "sammich"....then un-fold and check for gaps.....no gaps? Glue it up...

Let the plane tell you when you are done....one shaving the length of the boards...or, in the case of a panel....2-3-4 shavings.....which is why a Stanley No. 8 was as wide as it was...2-5/8"....

Also...it helps IF the grain in all the boards is running the same direction...

Now that method sounds really nice and efficient! Especially if you have a bunch of narrow pieces to joint. I'm going to try this next time...

[James Pallas]

The original post was about 2” material for a seat. We have gone the gauntlet from a to z. Thin panels and such. If you have a given amount of material and need to finish out at a certain thickness.You have one piece with a flaw that will not finish out at that thickness but may be incorporated as an inside piece. If you flatten that piece and it’s under your done. If you glue up and try to incorporate that flaw into the bottom of the piece or where you are going to scoop out the seat you have saved your project. One process does not fit all. It’s a good idea to learn to make glue joints when you don’t have absolutely flat and square perfect situations.
Jim

[Warren Mickley]

You completely missed the point of my post, Derek. The use of winding sticks is a direct measurement of wind in the edge. Your method is clumsy because it relies on a chain of measurements and error accumulates along the chain.

[Derek Cohen]

Warren, I know how to use winding sticks.

No doubt you can take a warped, rough and unevenly thick plank of wood and plane the top coplanar and square to itself. This is not easy for most, particularly when there are an infinite number of possible angles that a novice can tilt a plane and create a mess. While it is possible to correct this, it can take time - a chain of a different kind. No harm in that if you are just practicing.

Tell the Japanese they got it all wrong. It is just another approach.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Luke Dupont]

Well, Warren does bring up valid points about the advantages of jointing in the vise, and potential sources of error in regards to shooting with the plane on its side.
Likewise, Derek and I brought up real advantages with regards to shooting sideways.

I never quite trust jigs myself, and tend to not use them so much, for precisely the examples Warren gave, so I get his point. It's surprisingly easy to introduce error with any jig. So even if I do use a shooting board of any variety, I check the work to make sure something odd didn't occur. And I do generally gravitate towards the free hand method, but that's preference more than anything.

I do, and will probably continue to do both. Derek's example of jointing thin stock on the benchtop is just one example of where the method in question really shines. Another example being when you don't have an apron or face vise. Just more tools for the toolbox.

[Derek Cohen]

The original post was about 2” material for a seat. We have gone the gauntlet from a to z. Thin panels and such. If you have a given amount of material and need to finish out at a certain thickness.You have one piece with a flaw that will not finish out at that thickness but may be incorporated as an inside piece. If you flatten that piece and it’s under your done. If you glue up and try to incorporate that flaw into the bottom of the piece or where you are going to scoop out the seat you have saved your project. One process does not fit all. It’s a good idea to learn to make glue joints when you don’t have absolutely flat and square perfect situations.
Jim

Actually Jim, personally, I would do as Warren suggested since the boards are fairly short. I just wanted to make the point that there are many ways to joint uneven boards, and we must not assume one way fits all. Using a bench top is especially useful when the boards are long.

And Warren, I apologise if I come on strong with you. It is just that you can be so dogmatic that there is just one way.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[James Pallas]

Actually Jim, personally, I would do as Warren suggested since the boards are fairly short. I just wanted to make the point that there are many ways to joint uneven boards, and we must not assume one way fits all. Using a bench top is especially useful when the boards are long.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek, Warren did post that when doing boards or panels it’s better to do face first. In using the bench and clamping rough boards to it you can get a good edge referenced to the bench. When you do your second board it will be referenced to the bench. When you put one on top of the other they won’t necessarily be flat as they can be to each other. In desiring to save some types of figure I have made the matching joint at steep angles to save the figure. Hard to shoot on the bench.
Jim