Stair rail designs and codes

[Maurice Mcmurry]

It is a bad image. It is a standard 7 over 12 staircase in a restaurant. If I had this in my house I would not really want to have the little round rail but the Grandparents would sure use it.

[Mel Fulks]

The 5 1/2 by 12 was the standard for the highest quality, and it has two numbers. “Rise and Run”…is often 8, 10 which is 18 , only 1/2”
off from highest standard. Rise can be 8” ,run is often 10”. So rise and run 18 sounds good , it’s just not the luxury standard.

[Thomas Wilson]

The greene and greene rail would not pass here. It would not qualify as a uninterrupted handrail. You could modify the design by using a solid handrail above stepped panels and that would be fine. The old rule of thumb is rise + run = 18. If you are within an 1" of that, your stair will feel fine. Ironically I just finished framing these Friday, with the exact same rise as yours.

Attachment 485888

I wonder about the uninterrupted and continuous requirement for a flight. Certainly there are examples of a vertical section of handrail coming down from a newel post on a landing that blends with a rounded transition to the handrail continuing below. The how and why those pass yet the stair step does not is not clear. The Fine Homebuilding example in my second post did not fail although the article is from 1996 and was not governed by the 2015 code revision. The stair step shape is a lamination with side pieces cut like stringers from a wide board. There are applied rounded moldings at the top to satisfy the grabbable hand rail requirement.

[Thomas Wilson]

It is a bad image. It is a standard 7 over 12 staircase in a restaurant. If I had this in my house I would not really want to have the little round rail but the Grandparents would sure use it.

I’m a grandparent. I use the handrail.

My mother’s house which I and my sister grew up in had very steep stairs. The basement stairs had no handrail. The backup refrigerator was in the basement so those stairs were used daily. After our father passed away, when my sister and I were both there, she insisted I put in a handrail. My mother had lived in the house for 50 years without it, but my sister was right. I put it in. By golly afterward I grabbed it every time I went up or down those crazy stairs and was thankful for it.

[andrew whicker]

I will but I need to be prepared. I don’t think the inspector wants to teach me the building codes. That is not his job.

You're not right here.... Ask the inspector.

[andrew whicker]

If you want to take on the knowledge aspect yourself:

- Look into your local building codes
- Read the year of the building codes that are req'd by your local gov't
- Make sure you understand any exemptions, additions, etc to that code by your local gov't.
- Watch videos describing the building codes (railing videos are everywhere)

.....


- then call your code enforcement and make sure understand the code and talk to them!


I work in construction. We talk to code enforcement / inspectors. We ask questions.


Or do the work first and hope it passes??


Honestly though, in your case, why not get the building permit passed by making a cheap, easy to tear out railing? When the inspector leaves, tear out the cheap one and make a fancy one.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I wonder about the uninterrupted and continuous requirement for a flight. Certainly there are examples of a vertical section of handrail coming down from a newel post on a landing that blends with a rounded transition to the handrail continuing below. The how and why those pass yet the stair step does not is not clear. The Fine Homebuilding example in my second post did not fail although the article is from 1996 and was not governed by the 2015 code revision. The stair step shape is a lamination with side pieces cut like stringers from a wide board. There are applied rounded moldings at the top to satisfy the grabbable hand rail requirement.

I could also argue that the tall newell required at a 90 degree landing and the lower stair railing being at least a riser height below the upper stair, would in fact be the same as a stepped railing on a straight stair. The inspector would probably be confused, and restate that the railing needs to be uninterrupted and continuous, and they would inevitably win even though my argument isn't wrong. Based on my experience, if you wanted to fight them on it, you might get a variance granted, but it would be a pain to pull off. If it even needs to be inspected for your own use in your own building, the only time after the initial inspection that it will be looked at is when the property sells and the buyer wants one. I doubt that anyone would argue that the greene and greene rail is unsafe, it just isn't code friendly. You'd probably be surprised to know how many things are like this in residential building.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

It is a bad image. It is a standard 7 over 12 staircase in a restaurant. If I had this in my house I would not really want to have the little round rail but the Grandparents would sure use it.

I figured, nice looking stairs.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

The 5 1/2 by 12 was the standard for the highest quality, and it has two numbers. “Rise and Run”…is often 8, 10 which is 18 , only 1/2”
off from highest standard. Rise can be 8” ,run is often 10”. So rise and run 18 sounds good , it’s just not the luxury standard.

I agree, the 5 1/2" x 12" does feel nice. Seems like I personally never have room for it though. Everything is 9' or 10' ceilings now, that takes a long stair. Some day I'm going get to draw a house around the stairs.

[Mel Fulks]

I agree, the 5 1/2" x 12" does feel nice. Seems like I personally never have room for it though. Everything is 9' or 10' ceilings now, that takes a long stair. Some day I'm going get to draw a house around the stairs.

YES ! Do One ! ,and you will be in all the papers and magazines. Be sure to say it’s old and YOU brought it back! And I would add: “You
don’t breed a Great Dane with a Chiwowah , we need to get back to refinement and scale “…..TV host nods in agreement.

[Mel Fulks]

WW 2 took a lot of young men out of their parents homes. When war was over they often married quickly and bought a GI bungalow.
After training for war and then going to war , they were OK with money saving steps made just for them !
But then they got old and realized the steps were too tall. However the un-fix was in and even expensive houses started to get steep
steps . I can remember early TV exercise guys telling people to use their steps for exercise !

[Thomas Wilson]

I have made a half dozen or so designs using graph paper. Here are pictures of the sketches to give you and idea of the range of things I considered. I drew an outline of the hand rail and skirt wall and then filled in with the idea. I erased a bunch of these preserving the outline. So this is just what I have left. Each half of the hand rail outline was used for a different idea. These are in the order that I drew them.

Page 1. I like these. Both satisfy the 4 inch ball constraint. The second one was the favorite from the start.
HandPage1.jpg
Page 2.
This is like one of the designs from my original post. The dimensions do not work well. I abandoned it before it went very far.
HandRailPage2.jpg
Page 3. I experimented with a serpentine idea and a variation on the design from Page 1 that I liked;
HandRailPage3.jpg
Page 4. These are an Art Deco design and a variation on the serpentine design. I worked on scaling things accurately to see if either work considering joinery and assembly. The designs are both novel but don't suit a timberframe. They would both be difficult to make.
HandRailPage4.jpg

I chose the pegged frame and panel design to refine and work out details on. Here is a Sketchup version. The stair treads are shown for referencing the height of the rail. Of course in the actual staircase, the treads would be behind the skirt wall and not visible from this side. I made a mistake on hand rail height somehow. The height measured from the drawing over the edge of the stair is 33 7/16". I will fix that. You can see a 4" red ball in the open triangle above each panel and in the space between frame and the center post. I am satisfied the design is in compliance with code.

peggedframeandpanel.jpg

For those interested in the math, a maximum diameter circle that can be inscribed in a right triangle is given by

d=a+b-c.

where c is the hypotenuse.

A bit of trigonometry shown on the first drawing gives the dimensions of the right sides of the triangle in terms of the ball diameter and the incline angle of the stairs. Fun stuff for all the nerds out there.

[Thomas Wilson]

I commented in the Woodworking after Spinal Surgery thread that I would be milling a 2”x12” by 12’ of white oak yesterday some thirteen years after fusion of a couple of cervical disks. Here is the picture.

98D2FE14-225E-4AFB-BD08-74F8371347D9.jpg

I lifted the board one end at a time. Janicewhokeepsmehumble only had to guide the end of the piece on the dolly over to the saw and then help guide the piece through the rip. The infeed support was two roller stands. It was uneventful. For reference, a bd ft of white oak is about 4 pounds so the piece weighed about 96 pounds.

For those who have liked my shop, let me say, “Me too.” I only had to move the workbench in the background a foot or so to run this board through. The bench is on casters. I have never had space, flat floors, dry conditions, and good equipment like this. I shall enjoy it.

Thou shalt not ask what JWKMH said before or after the picture. The look should tell you that she very much wants the hand rail done soon.

[Wayne Cannon]

I don't remember the details, but here (in CA) I do recall that the cap rail on the ballusters was too high and thick, and the newell post interrupted the continuous rail and was not an acceptable end for a handrail.. The only thing I found that was acceptable was a narrower (round in my case) hand rail below and inside the ballusters with wrap-around ends (I didn't see mentioned, above) that would not catch on clothing or a handbag strap.

For treads over 3' wide, he wanted handrails on both sides, though I think he said the code restriction was 4'.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

Thomas Wilson, Congratulations on your recovery! That is a wonderful looking room!