Dust Collection for tools with 2 1/2" ports

[Michael Jasper]

Yes, all the Festool models have the same turbine and suction power except for the small mobile CT-SYS (which has 17% less suction). The larger CT26/CT36/CT48 models provide slightly more CFM because they have a filter that has 35% more surface area (i.e. less restriction for air flow

What about the CT15 - do you know if that also has a reduced filter surface area?

The smaller 27/32 hoses are fine for sanders, but not enough for saws and stuff. You can get up to a 50mm diameter Festool hose if you really need that much CFM.

You can use other hoses on the Festool vacuum, like the Bosch VAC005 or the Fein hose. By the way, the Fein hose is only a 30mm diameter (1-3/8").

Do you know if you can put a standard shop vac hose on the Festool CT models?

[Brian Gouldman]

To your second question, if not directly there are no shortage of 3d printed or injection molded adapters available from sellers online for all types of hoses. The main concern I’d have with typical cheapo plastic hose is if it’s strong enough to handle higher suction from a higher end dust “extractor”.

[Aaron Inami]

Yes, smaller diameter hose equals lower CFM. However, I think there is a lot of confusion on the shopvac actual hose size. Regarding shopvac, I did read that "The ends on 2-1/2" vacuum hose measure 2-1/4 OD".

The inlet on my Festool dust extractor is 2-1/4". I believe the inlet on the Fein Turbo is also 2-1/4". I would go and measure the outer diameter of your shopvac hose where it connects to the vacuum for comparison. It may be that they are calling it a 2-1/2" hose, but the actual cuff end is only 2-1/4".

If your shopvac is a 2-1/2" inlet and you still want to go with Festool, you can get a hose like this for the higher volume tablesaw/jointer/bandsaw stuff:

https://www.amazon.com/Cen-Tec-Syste...07RWKKBRP?th=1

Or there is a Festool 36mm to 2-1/2" adapter you can use on your tools:

https://www.etsy.com/listing/1237739...5-od-dust-port

Otherwise, you may just decide on another shopvac, lol.

[Aaron Inami]

CT15 has same turbine/suction as the larger CT26/CT36/CT48, but the CT15 does have a smaller filter.

[Aaron Inami]

I looked at that Oneida Dust Cobra. It's interesting, but it's pretty much a compromise between a vacuum and a low-end volume dust collector. It has static pressure of 70" WC suction, which is not nearly as good as the 90-93" WC of Festool or Fein or Supercell. The 245 CFM is not going to be enough for larger saw type tools with 4" dust ports. Like I said, a compromise.

I would probably go after that CT15 for now and then look forward to a higher volume dust collector (maybe 2HP, depending on how your budget goes).

[Michael Jasper]

I looked at that Oneida Dust Cobra. It's interesting, but it's pretty much a compromise between a vacuum and a low-end volume dust collector. It has static pressure of 70" WC suction, which is not nearly as good as the 90-93" WC of Festool or Fein or Supercell. The 245 CFM is not going to be enough for larger saw type tools with 4" dust ports. Like I said, a compromise.

I would probably go after that CT15 for now and then look forward to a higher volume dust collector (maybe 2HP, depending on how your budget goes).

I was starting to think the same - but I also saw that Festool invalidates warranty if you use something like a dust deputy. There was an account of someone who's electronics failed and Festool wouldn't honor warranty because he had used a cyclone that wasn't made by them.

[Jim Becker]

All of this is helping a lot!
One piece I'm still not clear on though is hose diameter with shop vacs. Specifically, even though the vacs are high pressure, wouldn't the narrower diameter houses on the festool units reduce cfm on a tool with a 2.5 " port?

Shop vacs and extractors do not really care very much about "CFM" because it's so low regardless. They work on the principle of higher negative pressure ("vacuum") which is why they work so well with the smaller diameter hoses. Some tools do benefit from the larger ~2.5" hose, such as the Domino 700XL because tools like that produce a larger quantity of chips off the tooling.

[Michael Jasper]

Shop vacs and extractors do not really care very much about "CFM" because it's so low regardless. They work on the principle of higher negative pressure ("vacuum") which is why they work so well with the smaller diameter hoses. Some tools do benefit from the larger ~2.5" hose, such as the Domino 700XL because tools like that produce a larger quantity of chips off the tooling.

Would you disagree with my assumption that for something like a jointer, router table fence or table saw with 2.5" port, that it would be better to use the larger hose?

[Jim Becker]

Would you disagree with my assumption that for something like a jointer, router table fence or table saw with 2.5" port, that it would be better to use the larger hose?

Not at all. I'm sorry if I was not clear. There's nothing wrong with the smaller hose for small port, hand-helds. I was using the DF700 as an example where the larger hose is a good idea due to the volume of "stuff" that gets produced when cutting mortises with it. For the tools you describe, the 2.5" hose will definitely be better and even though vacs don't focus as much on CFM (because they can't) that little bit extra possible will help with those tools. But don't expect stellar performance regardless. You will not get a lot of collection from the table saw just because of the nature of the tool. If you're doing edges on the jointer, it will likely work fine, but if you're flattening, that produces a lot more material and the vac may not keep up very well. It may be best to "collect after the fact" and wear dust protection. Of the three of those tools, the router table fence will likely have the best pickup because of how well you can focus the collection.

[Patrick Johnson]

I wonder why you are limiting yourself to low cfm shop vacs when something like a 1 -1.5 hp dust collector will get you much higher cfm at 120v. Even if it's not a canister style, you can still get 2.5 micron filtration for under $600 (from a quick check at Grizzly). In a small shop running 4" ducting to your machines is pretty feasible. Then you can drop down to 2.5" at each machine using a blast gate and short hose run to minimize vacuum loss.

Just my 2 cents.

Patrick

[Michael Jasper]

Not at all. I'm sorry if I was not clear. There's nothing wrong with the smaller hose for small port, hand-helds. I was using the DF700 as an example where the larger hose is a good idea due to the volume of "stuff" that gets produced when cutting mortises with it. For the tools you describe, the 2.5" hose will definitely be better and even though vacs don't focus as much on CFM (because they can't) that little bit extra possible will help with those tools. But don't expect stellar performance regardless. You will not get a lot of collection from the table saw just because of the nature of the tool. If you're doing edges on the jointer, it will likely work fine, but if you're flattening, that produces a lot more material and the vac may not keep up very well. It may be best to "collect after the fact" and wear dust protection. Of the three of those tools, the router table fence will likely have the best pickup because of how well you can focus the collection.

Thanks Jim - that makes complete sense. Much appreciated.

[Michael Jasper]

Why are you limiting yourself to low cfm shop vacs when the obvious solution is something like a 1 -1.5 hp dust collector with 800 to 1300 cfm? And that's with 120v. Even if it's not a canister style, you can still get 2.5 micron filtration for under $600 (try Grizzly). You said your shop is small, perfect! You won't have far to run 4" ducting to get to your machines, then drop down to 2.5" at the machine. Keep the DC stationary and run the ducting along the wall or ceiling.

At some point, you can upgrade the machine to canister filtration if you desire.

That's my 2 cents.

Patrick

Dang - just when I thought I understood all of this. So I thought low pressure, high volume DCs don't do well with 2.5" ports? That was a question I asked earlier in the thread and someone confirmed that was true in their experience. Maybe I asked the question in a way that was misleading. I was originally going to do just what you suggested - but then as I read more, it seemed that the high volume DCs wouldn't perform well through a 2.5" port - and might actually do worse than a shop vac.

[Aaron Inami]

Michael - that's just one opinion. I don't think the guy realizes how many small tools you have that just will not work well with larger conventional dust collectors. Unless you buy a big 5HP dust collector, any small 2.5" hoses will work like crap. Even with a big 5HP dust collector, I don't think you will have the amount of suction that a normal turbine vacuum will provide.

1.5 HP dust collectors will advertise 1100 CFM all day long, but that is measured with no hoses or splitters attached to the machine. With a 1.5HP, you will only get 500-600 realistically from the two 4" hoses they typically attach.

My Festool CT48 with a 1.4" hose (36mm) has a lot more static pressure suction than my 1.5HP Jet dust collector had with a 2.5" hose. The Festool is just going to work a LOT better on the smaller tools than a conventional dust collector.

[Jim Becker]

Dang - just when I thought I understood all of this. So I thought low pressure, high volume DCs don't do well with 2.5" ports? T

They don't.

[Lisa Starr]

I have a SuperCell that works admirably well thru my entire shop. Mine is piped with a 5" spirial trunk and 4" spiral drops with the longest run at approximately 30'. That said, it keeps up with my A3-31 Combo, Router Table and all my small tools including the ROS and Track Saw. With the smaller ports I find I have to crack another blast gate somewhere to avoid sucking the collection barrel off the floor. It is probably at its limit with my SC2C as I'm running both a 5" (cabinet)and 4" (overhead guard) line. It still does a reasonable job even then.