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Thread: Dangers of Shapers?

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    Western Nebraska
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    4,680
    I'll never forget that sound that a large tenon setup made that time that I neglected to check the speed on a new shaper. Don't know how fast it went, but it was terrifying. They give me the hebe jeebies just because of all that energy harnessed in that cutter. That one was clearly on the way to becoming a grenade if i wouldn't have hit the red button. Lots of ways to hurt yourself, shapers just allow you to do it in many more than usual. After all, pretty much every time you change cutters, you completely reset everything on the machine.

  2. #17
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    Nov 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hennebury View Post
    Big tenon heads, can be on shapers, this set is on a tenon machine. Attachment 489024
    Looks like a medieval torture device

  3. #18
    Join Date
    May 2014
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    Alberta
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    For me the biggest 'danger' of shapers is smaller amount of material (books, etc.) to learn from if you do not have the chance to work in a shop with experienced teachers. This was my story. I learned by tracking down every book I could find and asking lots of questions here on this forum. Compared to a table saw or drill press or even bandsaws there is way less volume of information. Probably because the domain of a shaper is usually commercial shops building doors/windows and cabinets. Also if you are a complete novice it is hard to cut through the crap on youtube to get the solid info that is available online.

  4. #19

  5. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Kees View Post
    For me the biggest 'danger' of shapers is smaller amount of material (books, etc.) to learn from if you do not have the chance to work in a shop with experienced teachers. This was my story. I learned by tracking down every book I could find and asking lots of questions here on this forum. Compared to a table saw or drill press or even bandsaws there is way less volume of information. Probably because the domain of a shaper is usually commercial shops building doors/windows and cabinets. Also if you are a complete novice it is hard to cut through the crap on youtube to get the solid info that is available online.
    You're right, there isn't much out there unfortunately. Things are easier in much of Europe as colleges etc teach according to modern rules and practices and often have courses available to the regular public where they can learn and at least get started properly. It's the wild west in North America. The Spindle Moulder Handbook is a tremendous eye opener and very valuable asset for folks over here though.

  6. #21
    I just got done running about 60 raised panels on my 5hp Laguna shaper. 2 passes, as a 15/16 tongue beyond the profile was needed in order to accommodate 1/2" overlay of applied bolection molding for this assortment of cab doors and very large appliance panels. As the hours ticked by, I couldn't help thinking back to the days of using a router for raised panels. Now that was truly spooky, as the router motor was struggling, I'm trying to man-handle a board that just doesn't like having that much removed from it, so it's kicking while the router's struggling, burn marks/ tear-out...
    Now that, my friends, is dangerous.
    Any time you get into a fight with a machine, the human loses. Either wrecked workpieces or injured woodworker.
    In this respect, the shaper is certainly safer, not to mention a time saver.

    No previous commercial shop experience. As Mike says, not much literature out there, so it's tough to get started with confidence. I was fortunate to be steered to Alpine Workshops. Four day course that blew me away in terms of learning the capabilities, setups, safety and advanced operations. Transformed my shop to a safer, more efficient facility, with higher quality results (read: less sanding!)

    Cost of a solid machine is nothing compared to high quality tooling. European machines and tooling geometry really stand out, as their safety and quality standards far exceed the regular Taiwanese board of fare. Entering the world of shapers, when done right and outfitted with proper safety/tooling and accessories, is really reserved for those with a high amount of disposable cash as a hobbyist, or full time operator with a solid workflow to justify. Too bad, because I'd argue it really is safer, once you've got some decent training and experience.

    Most of those old horror stories of knives coming loose and maiming people are thankfully, a part of the past, due to evolution of safer cutter head technology.
    Just resist the temptation to buy that $50 box full of old grandad's shaper-head assortment at the garage sale.

    jeff

  7. #22
    Would hate to have to do all this on the router table again! Closeup is one straight off the shaper - no dressing yet, and very little needed at that. If you can do it, a shaper is worth the investment, for sure.


    Resized_20221101_102904.jpegResized_20221101_102856.jpgResized_20221101_102920.jpgResized_20221101_122736.jpg
    Last edited by Jeff Roltgen; 11-01-2022 at 2:40 PM.

  8. #23
    That ain't workin', that's the way you do it.

  9. #24
    Good info here. One thing worth restating is the need to 'hold it down' on the table against the fence or cutterhead. I've never had a feeder (wish I did) but I have a number of various hold-downs along with something called Board Buddies. You still have to handfeed your wood but Board Buddies will both hold the piece down and help hold it against the fence.
    I learned to use a shaper in a shop class I took over 50 years ago and have had my own unit for probably 35-40 years. Things have improved imensely over the years IMO.
    IMO a shaper is like most other power tools. Yes there is the potential for danger but if handled correctly and respected, it's a very useful machine and probably not much more dangerous that many other pieces of woodworking equipment.

  10. #25
    Regarding safety accessories for the shaper, Aigner make some high quality devices. They are expensive but, like a Sawstop, cheaper than an ER visit. (Which I had after a router table accident). Scott & Sergeant sell them among others.

    I have only done power fed operations on my spindle moulder, but am soon going to do some more challenging work including free hand. Which makes me a bit nervous.

  11. #26
    Join Date
    May 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Kees View Post
    For me the biggest 'danger' of shapers is smaller amount of material (books, etc.) to learn from if you do not have the chance to work in a shop with experienced teachers. This was my story. I learned by tracking down every book I could find and asking lots of questions here on this forum. Compared to a table saw or drill press or even bandsaws there is way less volume of information. Probably because the domain of a shaper is usually commercial shops building doors/windows and cabinets. Also if you are a complete novice it is hard to cut through the crap on youtube to get the solid info that is available online.
    There is more shaper info in the archives here than most (or all) of the rest of the internet. The rest of the info is sparsely dispersed.

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Winterville, NC (eastern NC)
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    2,366
    I know a lot of folks poo-poo YouTube videos as a dangerous fad, but I have viewed a lot of videos demonstrating proper, safe use of a shaper (spindle moulder as its called across the pond). Many of these videos are by folks in production/pro shops and provide a lot of valuable advice on this machines' proper use. In my and many others opinions, the owners manuals are woefully lacking in how to use these machines.
    Holding the work piece both against the fence and down to the table will make any operation much safer.

  13. #28
    They aren't expecting people to need a manual to use the machine. Maybe lawyer world told them say less even.

    Older European makers had detailed stuff in their manuals besides the specs and machine details, some showed a number of set ups using featherboards and more.

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Horicon, WI
    Posts
    16
    Agreed with much that has been said. It's about the set-up. Shapers can be set-up safely (cutter under the stock below the table) or not so much (cutter ABOVE the stock without proper feeding systems or guards).

    Check out the shapers making 1930's production Packard car bodies (@ 4:40 min). Even without sound this is a 10 on the 'butt-pucker' meter!

  15. #30
    Kevin J has some solid advice. I had the advantage of learning about shapers from some old hands (some were a few digits short) back in the 1970's. We used a Tegle and Sonner shaper, with a 150 lb flywheel, so even a major accident did not slow it a bit.

    Most of our cutters were notch edge 'shaper' steel knives that fit into grooves in the upper and lower discs - one had Allen screws for adjusting knives in or our, and one collar had a bearing that the stock could ride against. All these knives were hand ground, using the squint and spark method, so profiles were not matched, even if you could adjust them as close as you could.

    The best advice I ever got was to 'hold it on 3 sides" - table, fences (or bearing) and feeder (or pressure bar). This kept you on track and if during a set up you realized you did not have 3 means of support, you could stop and re figure, adding that third side. The big shaper had an overarm hold down that was firm but had some give, so you could adjust for a really firm hold down, or something light and hardly holding it down at all. This overarm had a block of wood screwed into it, so you could even run it into a running cutter to get good coverage. The block was between you and the cutter, about 2" thick, 3" wide and 10 -12" long. It was to be placed so that the stock was well under the block/hold down before the cutter, and same on exit.

    When we finally got a 3 wheel feeder, it replaced the overarm, but the function was the same. 52 years in the shop, and I have never had nor seen a shaper accident involving blood.

    One thing we use a lot of is pressure bars. A 1'' x 2" pc of hardwood, the length of the table or fences, with blocks at each end. The blocks hold the 1x2 away from the fence but close to the cutter, parallel to the table, same thickness as the stock. Clamping the end blocks to the wooden fences allows for increasing or decreasing pressure on the parts. Adjust until the parts are firmly held, but can be pushed under the bar. Wax may be employed. Starting out, it seems an easy push, but after a whole day, you will discover muscles you never knew you had. The pressure bars are great for slight curved to heavily curved parts - like arch top raised panels where the tongue rides on the bearing and the pressure bar holds it all down.

    Another shop made item that comes in handy is a feather board. Shop made for length and strength as needed, these are clamped to the shaper table to hold stock up to the fences or shaper bearing. Often paired, one holds to the fore table, and a second holds against the aft fence. Again, adjustability is the key. But all that holding has a price. It can be exhausting pushing lumber all day. Gawd love the power feeder.

    Kevin mentioned a power feeder was not much good on curved parts. We take off wheels to make it a one or two wheel feeder, and then we can wrestle the parts thru the machine. A commercial feeder maker has a one wheel curve feeder with a larger, spongier wheel that allows the wood to be manipulated as it goes forward. With our 3 or 4 wheel feeders, we do two wheels for lay down or stand up curve profiling - one before the cutter and one after. Curve brick mold at an 18" radius going thru in stand up mode with two wheels on the shaper works fine. But the complex set-up is time consuming (an hour to set up, 10 minutes or less to run), so it is best if we have several jobs to run while the machine and accessories are up and running.

    And finally, at my first World Machinery Fair in 1973 in Louisville, KY, I met a machinery sales rep at a lunch counter, and we spent about 3 hours talking. Being off our feet and enjoying the food were part of it, but he talked about safety manuals and machines, lawyers and legal departments. He claimed that no machine maker would ever illustrate what the machine could do, since that would terrify a jury. The best machine designers could do was to state that all safety equipment, hold downs, and warnings should be strictly adhered to at all times. Of course, back then, advanced shop classes were common as were shops that would take the time to find talent and train from there.
    I want to stay as close to the edge as I can without going over. Out on the edge you see all kinds of things you can't see from the center.
    - Kurt Vonnegut

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