Lake Erie Toolworks has started to offer replacement irons using a recently invented powder metallurgy stainless steel, a new alternative to PM-V11.
https://www.lakeerietoolworks.com/co...ndplane-blades
[OP]
Contributor
Lake Erie Toolworks has started to offer replacement irons using a recently invented powder metallurgy stainless steel, a new alternative to PM-V11.
https://www.lakeerietoolworks.com/co...ndplane-blades
Member
For those interested in David Weaver's thoughts he's mentioned these irons here.
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/hand-tools.11/
Contributor
The price for one blade is more than all but one of my vintage Stanley planes. They don't list a blade for the plane(s) that cost more.
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
[OP]
Contributor
They're not that much higher than the PM-V11s. Whether they're worth the expense or not is to be determined. Unlike the Lee Valley iron, which has a proprietary formulation, Magnacut is pretty well documented as to its composition and heat treatment regimes. At least from that perspective, one can make an informed decision on whether to buy it or not.
There is one more powder metallurgy iron out there by DFM Toolworks, no details on its heat treatment, though.
https://dfmtoolworks.com/products/cpm-10v-2-plane-blade
Contributor
With having documentation on one compared to none on the other doesn't seem like having what one needs to "make an informed decision."Originally Posted by Rafael Herrera
I have a couple of PMv-11 blades that perform quite well for me. One is in a spokeshave the other in a shooting plane. Either of these hold up better than any other blade in my shop.
All the irons from Lee Valley to cross my bench have had perfectly flat backs. I didn't see anything about blade finishing on the Magnacut site. A lot of time has been spent flattening the backs of old Stanley and even new "premium" blades. I would hate to have to spend time flattening the back of another blade with such hard steel and a hefty price tag.
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Contributor
It is interesting to me, A metalllurgist, all the information available for this new steel. There is much more information than provided for most of the other blade steels.
Contributor
I’ll update this post later with a more thorough review, just have to get my quick reply in. I have 4 irons from Lake Erie and they’re fantastic. I’ll be putting in a preorder for their next batch as well. I think they’re the best irons on the market. And I’ve tried them all. Stay tuned.
PS - I was born in and reside in Erie. Maybe that makes me biased.
Contributor
I will preface this post by acknowledging that I am in the presence of folks that live and die getting the perfect edge on their blades. My knowledge of the characteristics and wearability of the various CPM and HSS steels used in turning tools is pretty good, but for blades used in hand planes and spoke shaves it is very limited. That said, in my spokeshaves, which I use a lot, and I mean a LOT, in my Stanley shaves the Hock blades performed better than the original blades, but when I switched to the LV PMV-11 the difference was remarkably better. The LN Boggs blades, which I believe are A2, seem to wear very well, but don’t seem to match the LV blades. I don’t regret the cost of the PMV-11, but I wouldn’t pay more as I get miles of usage in oak and don’t know that I could justify the additional cost, particularly if there were sharpening issues.
Left click my name for homepage link.
Member
Hmm, don't really know much about the metals other than how to sharpen them. If the V10 or 11 is comparable to the V10 lathe tools, then it could be a step up. With the new fancy metals, they do give edges that take more abuse before needing to be resharpened. This translates to you can do a lot more roughing work before going back to the bench stones. However, with finish/final cuts on my bowls, I still want a fresh edge. I did make one chisel from a M42 high speed steel blank from D Way tools. I haven't really used it a lot yet. I have chatted with him about the possibility of sending up a plane blade and having a laser cut blank made for my planes. I always have to experiment.....
robo hippy
Contributor
As one who is not a metallurgist, the information for this new steel doesn't mean much to me. What does mean a lot to me is how well the backs are flattened. Lee Valley has provided this specific information, including how it was done, in the past. It is worth it to me to purchase a Veritas blade to avoid the time spent getting the back flat. Though there hasn't been a need for me to purchase a blade for years.
In the end, all the technical specifications about the steel means nothing if the blade needs an investment in more specialized sharpening equipment. For those who use Arkansas type stones to sharpen, A2 steel is not an improvement over O1 steel. If any of my A2 blades need sharpening during a cold spell, I am out of luck. SWMBO doesn't like me to do sharpening with water stones in the house.
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Contributor
Just sharpen in the kitchen sink. Tell her you are doing it because it will be easy to clean up.
I’m sure she won’t mind…
Guest
Uh oh, Lee Valley shills' heads exploding in 3-2-1....
Last edited by Charles Guest; 11-09-2022 at 1:25 PM.
Contributor
We have a #10 cast iron frying pan at which she is quite capable of swinging in my direction for such a remark.
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Guest
I sure hope that everybody in the aftermarket plane iron business, at this point, realizes they can't ship product that needs hours of work to flatten the face. They pretty much better come with a slight concavity where it's supposed to have it, or already be lapped flat. A bump on the face -- in the box and back to the seller they go. This definitely applies to the better providers -- Hock, L-V, Isles, Lake Erie, etc. I do think I recall hearing that Hock has recommended the "Ruler Trick" in the past on its new irons. That's a nonstarter with me. Not sure if this is still the case with Hock.
Contributor
I will preface my comment with a note that says all is conjecture until someone reviews and reports.
I imagine that the manufacturer must have a heat-treating method/plan to deal with its high abrasive-resistance (Philip Marcou used to love D2 plane blades, and said that the secret here was in the heat-treating). Based on my experience, my concern is that V10 may be a chore to sharpen for hand planes users. Definitely hollow grind territory followed by diamond paste! This is a steel that would pose less of an issue for turners as they use a grinder to sharpen. I have had a V10 chisel and gave it away as I just could not get a decent edge.
Edit to add: It occurred to me to add that Henry Eckert planes (Australian) offers PM-10V plane blades. Now I do not know if these are V10 steel or just a name to imitate PM-V11. But they are in use.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Last edited by Derek Cohen; 11-10-2022 at 6:41 AM.
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