Felder CF 731 Questions

[Jason Shinn]

Hello,

There is a used 2006 Felder CF 731, 220v single phase, that is being sold in my area. I am highly interested but I am struggling to find trustworthy information to compare the machine too. The asking price is $10,000. My first questions would be is this a fair price for this machine in good condition? My next question is if there are any specific things to check when i go to inspect and test the machine? If anyone is able to point me in the direction of the standard specs, that would also be greatly appreciated.

Thank you for taking the time to provide insight or past experiences that i can use to be better informed about this machine.

[Patrick Kane]

Hey Jason,
I would start by reaching out to Felder for a price quote on a standard option Felder CF731. If im in the ballpark, i think they will be around $20k+ for a new machine. On a standard Felder machine, options can drastically affect the price of the machine. What is the length of the sliding table saw? Is it 79-80" or is it 10'? Scoring saw or no scoring saw? How is that scoring saw powered? There are multiple options for the outrigger and crosscut fence. The shaper hood has multiple options including Aigner options. It's common to have multiple spindles--high speed router, 1.25", and 30mm--each one is hundreds of dollars. The planer/surfacer cutterhead varies a bit as well--spiral versus straight knife or Tersa. I wouldnt be surprised if a fully optioned CF731 is $5,000-10,000 more than the basic level machine. I would leaf through the Felder brochure and have a good understanding of each option and it's value. Then, you can go inspect the machine in person and know what you are buying. I have a 2005 KF700, and its a great machine. I love it. 2004 onwards are solid machines. You should have a dado capable saw and xroll sliding table. Improvements were made to the 700 series over the years, but i feel like the jump from early 2000s to 2004/2005 was the big leap.

Lastly, and most importantly, do you want a 5 unit combo? I think they can be a huge bang for your buck because there typically isnt much interest on the used market for one. Not as good of a deal if you buy it and then only use the sliding saw. Felder/Hammer have excellent youtube builds using 5 unit machines. They make it look effortless. My crossover from Shaper to Saw and back is less than effortless : )

[Warren Lake]

dont know those combos but do have time on combos. Looks like a good machine from looking up a few of them. For sure what Patrick says as complete as possible. I got machines and all accessories and more from original owner old guys that used them for their lifetime. Not sure what that weighs but see a number of you tubes on that machine. dont know about pricing for that model but ive seen simpler combos sell for about 3 - 4k or so. That Felder is better equipped. Usually what I see SCM or others and not complete. there is a Felder group but good to take a look at that sure there is info and people with those machines.

[Greg Quenneville]

Have owned a 2000 build CF731 and now two earlier BF6-31 machines. (I quit woodworking for awhile there and moved 1000 miles, hence…). You could easily exceed $20K on a new machine, again depending on options.

Useful (and expensive) options include extension tables for the J/P, long extension tables with leg for the saw, outrigger tables, power feeders and power feeder tilt-a-way mounts, dials in the machine handwheels for the five various functions (thicknesser dimension, saw and shaper tilt and rise), mobility. Slider length, cross cut fence length. Shaper fence fingers, tenon hood, bowmouldmaster hood, shaper tooling. Every one of those things is worth $200-400, more for the outrigger table and power feeder. Any Aigner do-dads are spendy, and how.

The typical machine would have standard, replaceable knife cutter heads on the J/P. That’s all I have ever had, and I have no real complaints although I may convert one of my machines with a Sheartak head because Australian wood includes free quartz in every board.

I think a 2006 machine will have what Felder calls an “X-roll” slider, the significance of which for the user escapes me. It will have a current crosscut fence and outrigger if so equipped. (An outrigger is a must unless you will never cut sheet goods).

If the machine lacks the Felder mobility option you can overcome that, if needed, with a second hand pallet jack.

I am not a fan of the 5th function morticing option as it can easily be bettered with a Domino 700. Plus the morticing x-y table is huge* and blocks your path when jointing.
*huge when it’s in your way, but not if you try to balance a long work piece on it)

A combination machine is a compromise that is ideal for a space constrained one man shop. $10K does bring a lot of capability…separate machines would cost at least that much and eat up a lot of real estate.

My ideal shop would have a four function combo, domino and an extra stand alone shaper. (And bandsaw, mitre saw, dust extractor, drills etc obviously).

All of that said…$10K seems cheap if the machine is in good condition

Greg

On third edit…like Patrick says, the early 2000-2004 ish machines were worse than the 1999 and 2005 and on. Almost every option except dado is available as a user upgrade.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I have a CF 741, awesome machine. I bought new in 2012 ish, it cost a lot more than 10k. I've been watching for another 741 or a 731 to pop up around here, I'd gladly buy a second for 10k. Priced a good shaper by itself lately?? A 731/741 has an excellent shaper, that machine with a feeder alone is worth in the 10k, plus you get a really good planer, jointer, and saw.

As the guys said above, you could configure the machine however you wanted. If the OP wanted it the same way you do, excellent. You can still buy the optional add ons most likely so as long as the sliding table is a good length for you everything else can be added on. You will want a feeder. I use mine on the shaper and jointer mostly, a little on the saw too. As for other things to look for, if you can fire it up, make sure the electronics work as they should. They use easily available components so switches, displays, etc are probably easily replaced but could be good for negotiating. My machine uses an internal VFD to run the 3 phase motors that operate everything. I had to increase the setting on an overload breaker (with Felders blessing) soon after I got mine but otherwise it has been flawless. Not much else to go wrong. I do recommend resigning yourself to a day of dialing it in after it gets to your shop. Some things are not obviously adjusted. There are lots of good resources to help with that intel. Someone will recommend FOG, I don't, I despise their dozens of emails per day, but the knowledge there is good. Lots here too.

Do you have a pic of the machine?

[Jason Shinn]

Thank you all for the good information. I do have pictures i can provide.
IMG_3235.jpgIMG_3234.jpgIMG_3237.jpgIMG_3236.jpgIMG_3238.jpgIMG_3242.jpgIMG_3241.jpgIMG_3239.jpg

[Greg Quenneville]

That has a lot of extras and what looks like a 9’ slider. I would call 10K a screaming deal.

[Jim Becker]

That looks like a really nice machine for the cost you are being quoted, at least visually. I agree with Jason, that appears to be full sheet rip capable, too.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Buy it!!! I don't see a rip fence, see if it's around somewhere. Felder makes an ez lift power feeder mount now that I'd recommend instead of old school one that I have.

[Rod Wolfy]

That looks like a great deal. I had a BF6-31 for about 10 years. I sold it about 8 yrs ago, when I moved for about $5k. It only had a 4' slider. It was really nice, but that one is much nicer! Just make sure that all the surfaces are co-planar & all the motors run smoothly (like check to see it when it's up and running!). Put a shaper head on it & connect the belt from the shaft to the motor to make sure it runs. Try turning on the saw with the covers open & closed, to make sure all the safety switches are functioning.

I bought mine in California & had a crane put it on a pallet, then freighted to the PNW. It was all rusty & had a broken cast iron bed support. I had a new one shipped from Austria & it was an all day deal to get it on & co-planar.

[Patrick Kane]

That has a decent amount of optional upgrades included with it. I bet a similarly optioned machine brand new from Felder will tickle $25,000. I bet he has saw blades and shaper tooling that arent included in the photo. If you are comfortable with the 5 unit machine, then this could be a great pickup for you. Like others said, a saw and shaper of similar quality and vintage would run you atleast $10k, so you are almost getting a J/P for free. 12" planer would be very limiting for me, but you can always add a freestanding planer down the road.

I second the power feeder and gas strut lift. I have it on my machine. I wish i could experience the awesomeness of running a PF on my jointer. For decent runs of lumber, that seems enormously efficient. To have one feeder handle the shaper, saw, and jointer is a few thousand dollars of cost savings. I know some people like the Felder mobile base, but i found moving my machine to be a breeze with a narrow pallet jack. It also lets me move just about any other tool. The Felder mobile base is restricted to just the Felder unit.

[Mike Wilkins]

What are you waiting for? Sliding table saw, sliding table shaper with extra spindles, and a jointer/planer combo. For 10K you could not get the table saw. I have 2 Hammer machines, which is what Felder calls their 'hobby' machines, but their build quality is excellent.
If you are space-challenged this is he ideal way to go.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I wish i could experience the awesomeness of running a PF on my jointer. For decent runs of lumber, that seems enormously efficient.

I highly recommend the experience Last week I was making a 16"x2.5"x10' ish slab into a 60" live edge countertop. It of course hadn't behaved while drying so it needed face jointed badly. Having the feeder keep the right pressure in the right places as it fed just made that easy. Then a 20 second changeover to the planer and it took a grand total of probably 10 mins to get that gnarly pine turned into a board. Quick trip around the machine to rough cut the slab in half, the slab tapered about 4", so lay the part I wanted to use as the show edge on slider at an angle to end up with the live edge aligned correctly, then do similar with the other half of the original slab to get a piece of stock to glueup the 16"ish pieces into a 24" countertop.

Took longer to write that then it did to do it. Did I mention the OP should buy the machine?

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Jason, did you buy it?