Kitchen Cabinets

[Maurice Mcmurry]

I love not having to lay sheets flat before they are reduced.
The stowaway tilt table is over $7000.00 A full size vertical panel saw is half that
I still have my 5 foot and 9 foot tracks. I look forward to never using them again. (personal preference).

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[Jim Becker]

It is.
The rail's outer/upper channel has an xtra lip extruded into it like Makita's.

- but -

While it's a nice feature, it's far from necessary for most people. Festool ( inventor of track saw) still hasn't seen a need for that feature. It'll work with out it, though not as well. Cabinet carcasses don't use 45deg for construction , so it's kinda moot for the stated purpose.

For me the biggest thing will be - are Milwaukee's rails straight and consistent? I know Festool's are and that's part of the reason they're more $$$. I know Powertec's aren't. I know Makita's are a crap shoot. Having a tracksaw with a rail that's not straight is kinda pointless. Have two rails that are slightly different is gonna make for a frustrating experience on long cuts.

I agree that the feature may not be necessary, but wanted to call attention to it just in case it was. It's a really nice idea for many folks for sure if/when they are working on non-horizontal surfaces.

As to their rails, I would hope they are straight and consistent because Milwaukee is really wanting to pull back some business from Festool and Makita in the tracksaw space. But time will tell in that respect.

[Jack Frederick]

One thing that has helped me a great deal with my TS55 & FT track is a large MFT. I made the table with the Parf guide and it is dead nuts. There is a parf guide on the Classifieds now. I wouldn’t be without my SS, but like being able to take the saw to the work.

[Dennis Jarchow]

>>The TSO guide rail connectors look good and are a lot cheaper than the Betterly device.

One comment on the TSO rail connectors. I have them and use them with my Makita rails. They are very nice and much better than the stock Makita connectors. With my Makita rails, there is still enough play in the slots that they are not really self aligning. You still have to make sure the tracks are straight. Perhaps if you could tighten them down on a frictionless surface where the tracks could slide easily, they might work better. But on a bench or a sheet of foam board, I can easily get an 1/8" of misalignment with two 55" tracks. Also be aware that with any of the connectors, if you aren't careful about moving your joined tracks around, you can knock them out of alignment and not know it. A long track would eliminate this problem, but after ordering the Makita long track and having two of them arrive damaged or crooked I gave up.

I also have the Betterly alignment tool and it works well, but as others have mentioned a straight edge works too. The nice thing about the Betterly tool is it clamps the tracks in place while you tighten the connectors. I also clamp it back on my tracks when I am taking the tracks off my table to remove the cut pieces or to put a new sheet down to be sure they stay in alignment.

[Rich Engelhardt]

I would take the seats out of my Sienna or Honda van.
Go to the store or lumber yard.
Slide sheets of 4x8 plywood onto a horizontal cart - roll the cart to the van - slide the sheets in the van.

Drive home.

Drag my Gary Williams inspired cutting table out into the driveway. Set it up.

Open the back of the van & place my Sears bought version of these Harbor Freight roller supports between the table and the back of the van so I could just slide the sheets one by one out and onto the cutting table.
No real lifting required & plenty easy enough for one person to do.

- I'm using a cordless Makita track saw now so I no longer bring the plywood home to cut it I cut it at the store. I made one of the Shop Notes portable flat surfaces mentioned in the link I posted earlier. I drilled out the four corners so they would accept the Veritas Platform Saddles. I put a 6 foot 1x4 on both sides & that's plenty of support for me to cut down a full sheet to "carcass size". I also use the larger saddles that accept a 2x4.

The Makita has the small lip that helps keep the saw on the track when cutting at an angle. Corner cabinets are cut at an angle as are other specialty carcasses, such a bowed cases and the ornate over range hoods so there is a definite use for that feature.
With it's twin 18V series wired batteries, the 36V Makita has way more power than any 18V saw and much longer run time. While I never really measured how long a set of batteries will run, I never seem to run out of battery at all during the course of a day. YYMV with a single battery saw.

Regarding tracks. I started with a corded Festool TS55EQ and Festool tracks. When I got the cordless Makita, I sold the Festool and it's tracks. The Festool on Festool tracs was just a smidge more accurate. Not much but, the difference was detectable.

In addition to the Makita I did pick up a set of TSO Self Aligning Connectors. I've used them once so far and they seemed to work ok. It's hard to tell at this point.

I also picked up the Woodpecker's Parallel Guides w/Systainer. Pricy yes - but - I'm 71 years old and I figure why deprive myself of something at this point. It's not like I'm going to spend money on travel or anything.

I have never figured out why there are so many people so dead set against track saws and dismiss them as an extravagance that's not needed.

I forgot to mention - the books. I read them all and even bought one. I watched a bunch of Youtube videos. I asked here at SMC.
Someone mentioned Marc Sommerfeld and his method. I watched his Youtube videos and was sold. His process is stupid easy. If you go to Youtube and look for his name, he has a set of 4 videos called Cabinetmaking Made Easy. Even if you don't buy into his method it's worth the time to view it.

There's one other thing I found super useful. The Kreg Drawer Slide Jigs. These things are incredible. I had been using the Rockler one and saw a video of the Kreg ones. They way you can turn them around and support the drawer on them while you attach the side mount slides is worth every penny of the cost.

[John TenEyck]

I rarely use faceframes because I like the seamless look of Euro cabinets and because you lose space somewhere, but when I do I make them flush to the inside of the cabinet boxes, as Prouix advocates. You have more choices with hinges that mount inside the cabinet, and they are more rigid than those screwed to the faceframes.

John

[Jon Endres]

I know the OP has already made a decision but here's my experience. I built a whole house worth of cabinets in the basement of the unfinished house, including kitchen cabs and three bathroom vanities. I bought an EZ-Smart saw track and base and moved my Unisaw from my old house to the new one, and between those two tools and a few smaller tools (drill, impact driver, sander etc.) that was all I needed. I only used the table saw to cut the face frames; all of the cabinet sides were done with the EZ-Smart saw track. The KEY, if you don't have a fancy setup or a sliding table saw, is simply to check and double-check your measurements. I marked everything with an 0.5mm mechanical pencil and split the line, and checked square at every opportunity. Since 1/32" is 0.8mm, if you really think about it, how critical is that kind of accuracy for kitchen cabinets? I was pretty meticulous about it, but in the end, kitchen cabinets are just shop cabinets for a different kind of shop.

And for those of you commenting not to buy a tool for a single project - why not? What excuse do you need to buy a tool? I built a custom butternut breadboard dining table and benches for my son and daughter-in-law and bought a Domino XL700 just for that project. I figured that it would have cost at least that much to buy a similar-quality table, so why not build it and have a "free tool" left over? Same goes for the track saw. I'm probably going to replace the EZ-Smart with a legit track saw shortly, because they're out of business and the max depth of cut is only a hair over 1-1/2", and I've often needed more. I have another cabinet job coming up and I feel that buying the new Milwaukee saw is a perfect opportunity to trade up.

[Jim Dwight]

I admit I've never used a Powertec track, I was going off more favorable comments from others. At church I got us two Wen tracks that are only 50 inches long. That is short to do a full length cut on plywood. But I've had no issues joining them or with their straightness. But most of the work at church is not fine furniture grade.

At home I have joined my 106 inch track to my 59 inch track, both DeWalt. I just used a 6 foot aluminum level to get the tracks straight. I was cutting the edge of long cherry boards to make the 10 foot long top of my dining room table. The edges worked great for the glueup but I have to admit the table is about 1/2 inch wider in the center than at the ends. I don't know if that is a lack of straightness in the track or a problem with my technique but it isn't an issue in use of the table. You can only use a single joining bar with the DeWalt track so that is another potential issue but it is not applicable to Festool style tracks.

I don't know if the OP knows what the holey tracks that Festool makes. The holes are to all you to use the tracks and a jig they offer to space holes very accurately, I think it is on 20mm spacing. You "drill" the holes with a plunge router. I think it was Dave Sabo who recommended them. I have not looked at the price but if it's close I would agree that capability isn't a bad idea at all. One application would be shelf pin holes.

Last point (at least for this reply), one strategy would be to get the cheaper Powertec 59 inch tracks and check them for straightness using a known straight edge - could be as simple as a 6 foot level. If they are straight, they get used. If they are not, they go back. I'm sure Dave has experience supporting his concern I just do not know if it is possible to get a couple good ones as well as his experience getting a bad one or two. In a lot of cheaper offerings it is the variability that gets kind of high with the better examples being pretty darn usable.

I will also say that while I do not like the prices of Festool's offerings I love my domino. They make nice stuff. I would be very surprised if their tracks are not well made.

[Rich Engelhardt]

The holes are to all you to use the tracks and a jig they offer to space holes very accurately, I think it is on 20mm spacing.

32mm - for the European 32mm cabinets (anther entire multi page thread can be devoted to the worth/value/use of that system).

[Steve Gojevic]

Here is a picture of the table saw that I have now:

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Steve

[Joel Gelman]

Seems like aside from what you do with the track saw, you are unhappy with your Craftsman table saw. That takes up a fair amount of shop real estate, especially when you consider the footprint of infeed and outfeed in general, even if plywood is cut down. Not good to not be happy with your table saw. Perhaps this project is an opportunity to consider that Saw Stop vs a slider (which I now have whereas I once had a Delta Unisaw, and a Craftsman Radial Arm saw before that and I would never want to go back to a Unisaw).

[Steve Gojevic]

Rich Engelhardt - Thanks for the link to Marc Sommerfeld. Yes, his method is very good. The tongue-and-groove method produces self-aligning edges. I am seriously considering using this method. If so, would definitely buy his router bit set that has the correct shaft length so you don't have to recalibrate the cutter position every time you switch between tongue cutter and groove cutter. A seemingly small detail that can have a large payoff in time wasted recalibrating. He also has some good jigs and tools he sells.

I am going to make a router table as part of my table saw setup (see picture a few posts back). The tongue and groove method requires a good router table. Any suggestions on videos that show how to make a table saw router table that uses the table saw fence? Especially a fence add-on for the table saw fence that has t-tracks to hold various jigs and featherboards.

Thanks
Steve

[Scott Bernstein]

I built my kitchen cabinets last year in our garage. I have a table saw, which is not a slider. I obtained a Festool track saw with a couple of their rails. I laid out some wood strips on the garage floor to support the plywood panels and used the track saw to break down the panels. I did not attempt to use the tracksaw to cut the panels to final dimension, instead the tracksaw was just meant to break down to the pieces close to final dimension so the pieces were then easy to manage on the table saw. I assumed - rightly or wrongly - that the factory edges of the plywood would be close-enough to straight, so I used the factory edges against the table saw fence and cut the pieces to final dimension. This worked out great and all my cabinet boxes came out nice & square with little fuss. Did all the rabbets on the table saw with a dado blade; assembled with rabbet joints along the edges, glue, and screws. Good luck!

[Rich Engelhardt]

Steve, I can't help you with the table saw fence. Matter of fact, if you come across something I'd be interested. I picked up a small Aluminum plate for a compact router and I plan to put it in my table saw extension.

As far as other stuff from Sommerfeld. I did pick up his feather board. I like it a lot.

When I used the stile and rail bits without a coping sled, they did line up well enough to just swap them out.
I use a Rockler router sled now to cope the ends & that sled throw off the height.

For doing the carcasses and face frames though - it does save a whole lot of effort.

[Richard Verwoest]

Regarding breaking down plywood, I set up 4 "little buro" sawhorses with a sheet of foam insulation board on top, just behind my truck. Then I can just slide out one sheet at a time, make my cuts, and move on. No heavy lifting of plywood and no crawling around on the ground.