Kitchen Cabinets

[Vince Shriver]

Would clamping the ends of the tracks to work piece then improve the accuracy of the cut, or is there more to it than that?

[Jim Becker]

Would clamping the ends of the tracks to work piece the improve the accuracy of the cut, or is there more to it than that?

It can help keep things from getting bumped by the human...the tracks are generally pretty good at staying put, but with long cuts in particular, repositioning the human can sometimes affect the track, especially with longer cuts and long tracks. So a clamp at both ends can be a method to reduce risk. The saw will cut absolutely accurately to the track...so if you move the track, well... I do rarely clamp, but sometimes it just feels like the right thing to do and I honor "my gut".

[Rich Engelhardt]

Would clamping the ends of the tracks to work piece then improve the accuracy of the cut, or is there more to it than that?

I prefer to clamp the tracks when I'm making critical cuts on expensive plywood.
If I'm cutting Luan or 5.5mm underlayment I usually don't bother with the clamps.

I think I'd clamp everything if I had a set of quick clamps instead of the kludgy Festool screw clamps.

Clamps don't really help accuracy - but - they do eliminate an annoying (and expensive) "oops".

[Steve Gojevic]

Thanks everyone for your suggestions, experiences, and opinions!

This is what I decided to do:

1) Buy the Milwaukee Track Saw and see if I can get final cuts using it.

2) If not, I will use the track saw to cut down the sheets and try to use my Craftsman table saw for the final cuts.

3) If my Craftsman doesn't do the job, I will buy a Sawstop table saw.

I don't mind having the track saw even if it doesn't end up doing the final cuts (I think it should if I do things properly).
, I will be making face frame cabinets, so I have a little more "wiggle room" than if they were not face frames.

John M Wilson, thanks for suggesting the Peter Millard videos. I have watched them and they are very helpful.

Terry Therneau, yes I plan to make a saw table for the track saw. It will be similar to what you describe.

Jim Dwight, Thank you for the Powertec track suggestions. Their tracks are almost half of the price of the Milwaukee tracks.

Has anyone used track guide alignment tools like the below item. I will be taking the tracks apart often and want to align them as quickly as possible:

https://betterleytools.com/products/...saw-rails.html


Thanks Again
Steve

[Michael Rutman]

I may be the best to answer this as I was in exactly this position before I started up workshop refurbish. I had never made a cabinet before and have made exactly one using similar tools to what you have. For a first attempt I got pretty close. So, what can I recommend. I'm also purely hobbyist, so my skills are nowhere near most of the people on this list.

I bought the Festool TS55 and wow, it's amazing. I hear good things about the Milwaukee, so whatever works for you should be great. I can say the TS55 anti-chip works well, none of the plywood chipped.

I bought the Kreg 720 Pro to do the joining and love it. Next time, though, I'll try the domino for the face, but for carcass, I'm sticking with the Kreg.

Now the negative, remember, first cabinet I made. It is definitely about 1/8 not even and that means the drawers aren't right. You can't see it until you try to open a drawer. That mistake was because I did the trick of lining up the track saw using a square board. Yeah, not accurate enough, I have the Woodpecker attachments on order, I'll let you know if they are amazing or not. I will say it's very very hard to notice you aren't square over a 48" cut.

I can't remember how much I used the tablesaw, but I did need to square some of the cuts. I suspect I wouldn't have had the 1/8 difference had I cut everything.

The one place where I felt it was dangerous was I didn't have a large enough router table to safely do the dados. I have since gotten a large router table with an Incra fence (waiting on workshop to try again).

One thing I am unhappy with is the face, it turned out to be much harder than I expected to size it right. Might want to consider banding instead of facing.

Other things, hrrrm, I cut the plywood on styrofoam on the ground, never again. Was going to buy a Bora Centipede, but I had the money to get the STM 1800 instead. Both are excellent for different purposes, but not having to bend over is key. Fatigue will cause less accuracy.

Final thoughts, wife said it was close to being allowed for kitchen cabinets, need a bit more practice first. Good thing I (almost) have a new workshop that needs cabinets!

[Dave Sabo]

Steve _ may I suggest you get the Festool holy rails instead of the Milwaukee ones. They're only 20bucks more a piece and will give you more options going forward. If you sell them later they will almost certainly bring more than Milwaukee ones on the used market. Forget powertec tracks if you want to join them together. They won't be accurate enough . There's a reason they don't cost as much. Same reason you're not getting their saw.

https://www.festoolusa.com/products/...lr-32#Overview


2nd - forget the Betterly gizmo. It's not needed. Your most accurate straight edge or level will produce the same results for free. If you get these connectors for whichevee festool compatible rail you choose , you likely won't even need a straight edge. JUST BUY EM !

https://tsoproducts.com/accessories/grc-12-self-aligning-guide-rail-connectors/




p.s. leave a business card's width gap between rails when you connect them

[Steve Gojevic]

Dave Sabo - Thanks for the reply on the Powertec rails. I was hoping to get some comments on them. It wouldn't make sense to buy a track saw for accuracy and then get cheap tracks to negate the accuracy.

The TSO guide rail connectors look good and are a lot cheaper than the Betterly device.

Michael Rutman - I am planning to install my router into the table saw extension leaf that I made. This will allow me to use the table saw fence with the router and also allow a large table surface for stability.

I also have the Kreg pocket jig and plan to use it for the face frames.

I am definitely NOT going to cut on the floor on a foam sheet. I am making a cutting table with foam as the top "sacrifical" layer to bring the sheet up to a comfortable level. I just got done installing ceramic tile on my kitchen floor(along with radiant heat tubing) and I'm not anxious to do more work kneeling on the floor!

Steve

[Michael Rutman]

Glad to see you won't make my mistakes

[Steve Gojevic]

Glad to see you won't make my mistakes

Oh, I've made plenty of my own!

[Jim Becker]

Before eschewing the Milwaukee rails, there is a locking feature that may depend upon the way the rail is machined. Kyle talks about this at about 6:00 in this video:

[Bruce Wrenn]

Before jumping into cabinet making, get hold of a copy of Danny Proulx's book, "Building Your Own Kitchen Cabinets." Changed my method of making cabinets

[Dave Sabo]

Before eschewing the Milwaukee rails, there is a locking feature that may depend upon the way the rail is machined.

It is.
The rail's outer/upper channel has an xtra lip extruded into it like Makita's.

- but -

While it's a nice feature, it's far from necessary for most people. Festool ( inventor of track saw) still hasn't seen a need for that feature. It'll work with out it, though not as well. Cabinet carcasses don't use 45deg for construction , so it's kinda moot for the stated purpose.

For me the biggest thing will be - are Milwaukee's rails straight and consistent? I know Festool's are and that's part of the reason they're more $$$. I know Powertec's aren't. I know Makita's are a crap shoot. Having a tracksaw with a rail that's not straight is kinda pointless. Have two rails that are slightly different is gonna make for a frustrating experience on long cuts.

[Thomas McCurnin]

Other good books:

Building Traditional Kitchen Cabinets by Jim Tolpin. This is an older book, and Jim was a finish carpenter by trade (not a furniture maker), now operates a school, but the techniques are excellent, and quite frankly, much less complicated that you and others may envision. He didn't have a track saw and does not use dados. Strictly plywood casework, air nailer, face frames, and frame and panel doors. You'll laugh at the dated cabinet designs (arched doors and melamine) but solid shop built cabinets, the construction is rock solid and simple.

Illustrated Cabinet Making by Bill Hylton. Hylton is a Fine Woodworking guy, so traditional hardwood construction, mortise and tenons and no pin nailers.

Danny Proulx's book, like Tolpins, is a bit dated and he uses techniques used in 1970, again with arched oak doors and the like. Again, solid advice as to old school construction.

Complete Kitchena Cabinet Maker by Robert Lang. One of the more complete and thorough books on the subject, but like Tolpin and Proulx, the material is dated (biscuit joinery), but again, good advice and solid old school construction.

[Steve Gojevic]

Several of you have suggested Danny Proulx's book on Kitchen Cabinet building.

As I read your suggestions now, Danny's book is sitting next to my computer!

I first read his book about 7 years ago when I was contemplating building the kitchen cabinets. I brought it out again now because I am actually going to build them. The book is from the local library. They also have the other books suggested, but at different locations so I didn't get them yet. I like Danny's methods, but I am going to update some of the actual methods.

Danny suggests building the face frames so they are flush with the inside of the carcass sides. This makes mounting drawer slides easier since you don't have to shim out the slides. Most of the other books show the face frames extending past the carcass inside by about 1/4" or so. Any reasons not to mount the face frame flush with the inside to make mounting slides easier?

Based on the reviews, I am NOT getting the Powertec tracks. I might as well get the Milwaukee tracks since the name brand tracks are all close in price.

Nobody locally has the track saw or tracks in stock. Home Depot's web site claims that they can deliver the Milwaukee track saw to my house in a couple of days. However, they don't have the tracks in stock and no projected date when they will have them. I am going to buy the saw from HD because it will be easier to return it if I don't like it (unlikely but possible that I won't like it). Northern tool has the tracks in stock, so I will buy the tracks from them. I will also order the TSO guide rail connectors.

Steve

[Ole Anderson]

WAIT!!! If a project as grand as new kitchen cabinets doesn't justify a new table saw, nothing will. DO IT!!!

I just finished up breaking down 6 sheets of MDF for new kitchen cabinet doors for a project at church. 43 doors total. Had some help from a fellow woodworker/structural engineer. Using my 10 YO Grizzly tracksaw. Supported a sheet of 1" foamboard on a sheet of 1/2" ply on sawhorses as a cutting table. Wishing I had replaced the rubber strips on the tracks first as they were worn down by up to 1/16". Used MaxCut2 for optimizing sheet layout. Being careful we could get within a sixteenth inch on dimensions. I would take every cut panel to the table saw to trim to exact size if not within 1/32, so easy with a good fence. One thing that helped with getting the track square with the cut edge is a shop made 21" square (5 cut method) of 1/2" ply with a lip on one edge that we could just bump the track up against. Took an hour per sheet to break down. BTW, it takes two old guys to move a sheet of 3/4" MDF.