[OP]
Contributor
Hi, I just acquired some green wood (cherry and catalpa) the cherry is about 22 to 24% and the catalpa is 12 to 14%. I haven't sealed the ends yet but will in next 4 to 5 days. Waiting for the sealer to get here. I may go ahead and turn some of the catalpa and throw into a barrel of shavings to finish drying. Thought, suggestions. Thanks, Jim
Contributor
Cherry is REALLY prone to cracking and I would be surprised if you don't get checks in it before your sealer gets there. Can you coat the ends with something - paint/shellac/etc. and then get a fresh surface for the sealer when you get it? The catalpa is actually pretty close to ambient here, but perhaps not in Idaho.
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Contributor
I use Titebond ll for end sealing and have good luck with it. Usually thin it 1/3 water 2/3 Titebond. Last gallon I bought was cheaper than a gallon of Anchor Seal and available on the shelf at HD.
Contributor
Mr. Keeton may be generous on the cherry--i swear i've had some starting to check while i was bucking the log!! (okay, that might be an exaggeration, but definitely within a day--two at the most.)
Moderator
My experience with cherry is it varies widely. I’ve had some, as mentioned, start to check quickly. I’ve also had some that simply refused to check, I suspect some basic difference in the trees. Log sections from one large tree in particular didn’t check even when left out for several years, unsealed. .Originally Posted by Earl McLain
Just last night I cut up a chunk of cherry from a tree felled last summer, left sitting on a pallet all this time, unsealed. I expected it to be ruined but found no cracks and no checks outside of a narrow area of sap wood. Go figure. It was from the butt section cut close to the ground if that makes any difference. (I cut most of my green wood into smaller turning blanks and dry before turning.)
That said, James, I would definitely seal it asap. Until you get the sealer you can store it safely outside by keeping it wet as long as it’s cool, prob not a problem in your area this time of year.
If I have several rounds about the same diameter and can’t seal immediately I simply set one on something (in the shade), stack some more on top, then cover the uppermost surface. Or put water on it to keep it wet. Each piece protects the one below.
If you have the whole log you can store it off the ground and either keep the ends sealed or wet or simply leave the ends exposed and cut and discard some off the end before cutting off a turning blank. That’s the way the other John Jordan, the famous one, does it.
JKJ
Contributor
Put the cherry in garbage bags util the end sealer gets to you.
Contributor
I'd assert that the differences in experience with cherry has much more to do with difference in ambient conditions (temp, relative humidity, and air circulation) than differences in the wood itself. Best approach to hold wood before getting sealer is Richard's plastic bag suggestion, or if the pieces are large, just tarp the pile. I often use empty bags from horse feed, made of that sort of " plastic burlap". They are not moisture proof, but retard evaporation enough to prevent checking. Can't leave wood in plastic for too long or it will mold. How long depends on temperature.
Best,
Dave
Moderator
As mentioned, my experience differs. I agree that the ambient conditions are the driving factors in the useful life much or most cut green wood, cherry and others..
However “experiments” here with cherry from different trees stored together under identical conditions make me think there might be something else going on - some cherry chunks/logs stored/piled unprotected side-by-side have shown much different stability than pieces from different trees. When clearing trees I often have piles or stacks of way more cherry and other wood than I can possibly use so much of it just sits for months or even years until I get around to burning (I pit-burn for efficiency and safety).
I don’t know what causes cherry from some trees to be much stable than others. Genetic differences, type of soil, climate and growing conditions (fast or slow growing?), season when felled, size of tree? Some evidence seems to point to the latter - wood cut from several large diameter trees, maybe 36” at the base, seemed to be more stable, even that cut from smaller sections of trunks and limbs cut from high in the same tree. I gave away most of the wood and another turner commented on the stability. Some similar sized cherry section from different trees acted more “normal”. I’ve had similar experience with other species of large trees, such as a 36” red oak that came down in aa storm last year and a big bradford pear.
As an aside, in several cases wood from near or below the ground on some trees seems even more stable. For example, the large cherry I mentioned was on our property line next to the road and too near a neighbor’s house. I removed it to put up a hay storage structure and dug up the the huge stump with a backhoe. (The solid part of root “ball” was maybe 4’ high.) Over the next few months I whittled out chunks with the chain saw. Those chunks seems as stable as concrete! As a huge bonus the wood below the ground was highly figured, almost burled, typical with other big stumps of other species I’ve extracted. I realize such stump and root wood is hard to get but if you are taking down a big tree and have the means, consider digging up the stump. In general I found the wood near and below the ground figured and stable in other species too, like walnut, maple, dogwood and even y.poplar. Dogwood is especially notorious for splitting but the wood near the ground is better. i even dug up an 20-year-old dogwood stump and cut blanks that were not only highly stable but beautifully spalted as well.
(If slicing up stump and root “ball” wood a pressure washer and wire brush are your friends, as is a chain saw with a carbide blade. Watch out for embedded rocks…)
I agree with the bottom line that if green wood can’t be turned quickly the safest technique is keep it damp and dry it slowly. (if possible, best to first remove bark and sap wood in some species) Mold is a real problem around here except in the winter. Of course, mold can lead to spalting but that’s a gambling game. (BTW, some of the most incredibly spalted wood I’ve ever had was from a turned bowl blank of sopping wet sugar maple put in a plastic bag, stored in the shop, and lost in the shop for years! When I finally found it the wood was totally dry, the surface was covered with heavy fungus, but the wood inside was amazing - greens and purples and black and not a bit of punky decay. It was so wonderful I now have several sealed-bag experiments trying do duplicate the process - I’ll let you know in a few years!)
If anyone is interested in the feed bags Dave mentioned you can probably visit a farmer and get all you want. I know my stack of feed bags accumulates until it to gets out of control. Sometimes the farmer’s co-op puts bulk seed in the same type of bags. In fact, our local co-op will sell a stack of the new seed bags for cheap if I ask. If tarping for an extended time be sure to allow air circulation at the bottom, especially in warmer weather.)
JKJ
Contributor
This is the method I use but was annoyed at how long it took for the glue to dry. Called Titebond and received the recommendation to add about 10% rubbing alcohol to the glue to hasten setting. Costco isopropyl alcohol is cheap.
Contributor
Same as with wood for steam bending - one red oak or white oak log may split well and bend well. The next one may not split well, but bend well. The next splits great, but breaks on every attempted bend. It is a crap shoot!! Fortunately, the odds weigh favorably on it being a good log. Same with cherry, but reversed - odds weigh heavily on it cracking in a matter of hours, days at the most.
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[OP]
Contributor
Well the sealer got within about three days and I got the ends sealed. No cracking to speak of. Another question what's the best moisture content to let them dry to before I start turning? I can also turn them green but would rather wait a while. Jim
Contributor
Many, perhaps most times the cracks are microscopic and won’t show until you turn it. I hope that is not the case for you, but if any cracks are evident, then there are more there than you see.
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Moderator
People have different opinions. I personally far prefer to turn dry but successfully drying a big chunk or log section is usually difficult or impossible. If turning large things like bowls I think you are better off turning green ASAP. Either turn to finished size and let things warp or rough turn, dry, then finish turn.
BTW, since I like to turn dry wood I usually cut up green log sections into smaller turning blanks, seal well, and sir dry. It's easy to find those invisible end checks with a rectangular turning blanks - before use just cut off a thin slice of end grain with the bandsaw and bend it. The slice will break at any defects like checks and ring shake. Most dry without checks, but if present I just cut back a bit more until I get to good wood.
It sometimes takes years for even relatively small blanks to dry to EMC, depending on the size, temperature, RH, species, and particular tree. I dry on wire shelves in my shop with heat and air and track the dryness by weight.
Dec_2020_003.jpg Dec_2020_004.jpg Dec_2020_008.jpg drying_tracking.jpg
In the last week I cut up a tree's worth of Dogwood into four tubs of blanks; some will probably take three or more years to dry.
JKJ
Contributor
Have you cut the pith out or are they still in log form? If the wood is still in whole log form, they will still crack within a couple weeks. I've had much more luck storing wood when I cut out the pith and then seal the endgrain.
If they are whole logs, I'd try to get them cut and rough turned within a week or two, especially with cherry which is prone to cracking as stated above.
Good luck,
Tom
[OP]
Contributor
Ok, I got one of the pieces of cherry turned. I left it 1" thick all the way around (sides and bottom). Weighed it then threw it into a barrel of shavings. When it warms up outside later on I'll put it out in our green house. I didn't use any sealer on it. I've got some black locust to try next or some of what I believe is hickory. It's pretty dry but I'll take a moisture reading on it to be sure. Jim
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