SawStop

[Tom M King]

I can't say, but "professional" and "knowing what they are doing" are not necessarily the same thing, or even caring what they are doing. I don't think it's that unusual that almost half don't really care about what they're doing, but are there to get a paycheck, and have their mind on something else. None of those have even lasted a day on any of my jobsites, and that was long before they were allowed to use a power tool.

Way back when I was hiring older, very experienced carpenters, I had to threaten to let them go to get them to use a guard on a jointer. They wanted to argue then, but finally gave in when they realized I wasn't going to budge.

[Carl Beckett]

I love sawstop threads.....

I wonder how many accidents on REGULAR tablesaws have been prevented because some little voice in the back of the head causes the operator to slow down or second guess - 'just to prove Sawstop fans wrong'....

??

[Dave Roock]

I can't say, but "professional" and "knowing what they are doing" are not necessarily the same thing, or even caring what they are doing. I don't think it's that unusual that almost half don't really care about what they're doing, but are there to get a paycheck, and have their mind on something else. None of those have even lasted a day on any of my jobsites, and that was long before they were allowed to use a power tool.

Way back when I was hiring older, very experienced carpenters, I had to threaten to let them go to get them to use a guard on a jointer. They wanted to argue then, but finally gave in when they realized I wasn't going to budge.

Agreed ! The only woodworking accident I ever have had was in a 8th grade woodshop class. I was making a cutting board for my Mother & running sections on the jointer. Lesson learned - I let the middle finger on my right hand dip down too low and it jointed a section of the end of my finger off. Not much pain, happened so quick with a very clean cut ( sharp knife lol) Have made sure fingers are in no danger of being chopped ever since. Reinforced when I started a construction/carpentry job. Foreman explained very thoroughly how to operate a saw(s) & how to always keep you fingers away. Told me how the cut I would be doing would not take very long and to concentrate 100% during the very quick cut. When I did some work on the shingle roofing crew ( big apartment buildings), idiots were using Porter Cable/Milwaukee Circular Saws with a chunk of wood jammed into the safety guard to "keep it out of the way". I helped put an end to that when I ripped the chunk of wood out and threw it off the roof. Showed a couple idiots how they could cut just fine with the guard in place. Not all "experienced" workers are safe that is for certain.

[Jacques Gagnon]

I think you're right. They're just out of reach for 99% of people...they take up 4x the footprint of a 36" cabinet saw, and cost 10x .

…for the record, my short stroke slider (79 inches or so) has a smaller footprint than my old cabinet saw in terms of width. A slider with a shorter carriage would bring the overall depth/length to that of a cabinet saw.

In terms of cost the entry level machines from either Felder or SCM are within a couple of thousands when compared to the Sawstop, possibly even less than that.

[Dave Roock]

…for the record, my short stroke slider (79 inches or so) has a smaller footprint than my old cabinet saw in terms of width. A slider with a shorter carriage would bring the overall depth/length to that of a cabinet saw.

In terms of cost the entry level machines from either Felder or SCM are within a couple of thousands when compared to the Sawstop, possibly even less than that.

Absolutely correct. A Felder slider like the Hammer series would be a far better machine. I have been using my Sawtrax #1052 - will be writing a review on that. Most people who I have seen criticizing a Panel Saw like that have never actually used one with a proper blade. When some experienced carpenter/woodworking friends saw how good the cuts were from that they were surprised. Great for breaking down sheet goods. Fingers never near blade.

[Jim Becker]

Relative to Dave's comment, the footprint of a typical short stroke slider from Felder/Hammer or SCM/Minimax with the outrigger removed (quick and easy for both brands) is about the same a a typical North American cabinet saw with a ~50" fence system. I have owned both and know that for a fact. (slider in my shop) I'm just mentioning this for reference because there are lots of choices available to folks for table saws and there are many who don't realize that a typical short stroke slider isn't a behemoth like a really big panel saw one might see in a larger cabinet shop.

[Carl Beckett]

I am curious what price ranges people are thinking when discussing the various purchase options. I personally got to my current slider over the years with a series of upgrades. AND, experienced a TS accident which sent me to the ER (a sawstop would not have prevented ... and perhaps neither would have a slider). But I know for a fact I did not have the funds to jump into a slider from the start - which means suggestions to do so would have been of limited value)

Portable direct drive saws: $XX
Circ saws as a solution: $XX
Contractor saws: $XX
Traditional cabinet saws: $XX
Sawstop: $XX
Sliders: $XX

I purchased a combination of new/used. Used sliders are not as plentiful as used traditional cabinet saws. But used Sawstops still sell at a premium in my area. A new cabinet saw (powermatic) may not be that much less than a new Sawstop - but could be considerably less than a new slider.

All technical problems have an economic component...

[Keegan Shields]

My used Grizzly G0623X was $3K in 2021. I was considering a SS but this popped up on CL 3 miles away and I'm glad I went with it.

[John LoDico]

I don't think this is entirely off topic since we're discussing safety mechanisms AND sliders, but this new safety mechanism from Altendorf looks like the first real competitor to the Saw Stop technology. It's towards the end of the video from the "Manor Wood" You Tuber (who has "great kit" as they say in Great Britain!): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfbuCe_T2CM

[Jacques Gagnon]

The system used by Altendorf is only available on « top of the line » machines that are usually beyond reach for hobbyists like me. Felder also developed a non-destructive system (called PCS) a few years ago that can be installed on high end units. The price tag for units equipped with these safety systems is substantial. Sawstop has found an approach that is within reach for the hobbyist clientele.

[Warren Lake]

On the Altendorf interesting idea there that they have a mid position for the cross cut fence. On the small SCM slider ive cut solid material in front of the fence in the front position and it worked well. Figured id modify it to take a bit wider. Not sure two more locating pins could be added into this fence in the middle but its a thought. I watched him ripping conventional on another you tube and still a thing id have no interest in standing sideways stretched out uncomfortable. A number of the small sliders dont have a large carriage in the way so can rip on the fence. Thanks for posting that you tube and nice to see the history and original saws.

[Alan Lightstone]

That Altendorf safety system is interesting as it appears to activate when the hand is in line with the blade, but actually nowhere near it. I wonder how it does that.

I look fondly on all the slider posts, but I have a large 2nd workbench/assembly table to the left of my Sawstop ICS. I don't know how I could have a slider and still keep that. No way I would want to be constantly removing the slider mechanism and moving the table often. Way too big/heavy. Am I missing something?

[Warren Lake]

had the SCM on and off several times but id have no interest in making a habit of it. It has some weight to it and im fine but its an older bearing style and even the on and off puts some stress on the bearings as set up so id rather not do it.

Does take up room and well more than a cabinet saw but its a better saw in several other ways

[Randy Heinemann]

I have a Sawstop Jobsite saw and I have never been sorry I bought Sawstop. There are other jobsite saws available that are much cheaper and likely even as accurate. However, the first time I triggered the brake (not even on my hand but an aluminum fence) I was extremely glad I had a Sawstop. It reminded me how quickly and easily unintended things can happen, no matter how safe you feel you are or the setup is. It's just that extra level of safety that prevents a potentially unrecoverable accident which results from a mistake. So, it's worth it to me.

[Bernie Kopfer]

First off, I think sawstop is a great product. That said, I also feel people take chances they really shouldn't because the saw is "safe". So some of those triggers should be attributed to user carelessness imho.

I have found it interesting that in my experience using a Sawstop has caused me to be much more careful. Because a trigger is a hundred dollar brake and a hundred plus blade. Call me cheap but that kinda money wasted is a deterrent to me being cavalier around the spinning blade