Auction Shaper - T45 Griggio

[andrew whicker]

Hi,

Just picked up my biggest piece of equipment to date..

I got two of these heads and the parts shown below. What type cutter body are these? I think the brand is Weinig with vertical grooves. Link: https://tooling.weinigusa.com/product-p/50312203.htm

I get it unloaded tomorrow and then I can take more photos and measurements... but shapers are still a bit of an unknown to me. What arbors to buy, what this dinged up aluminum rod is, etc

20230320_153618.jpg
20230320_191155.jpg
20230320_191210.jpg
20230320_191646.jpg

[Mel Fulks]

Corrugated, or ‘corg ‘ head like I discribed for my bearings

[Kevin Jenness]

Strongly suggest you watch Roy Sutton's videos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwdJsT8Sdwc, get a copy of Stephenson's Shaper Handbookhttps://www.amazon.com/Shaper-Handbo.../dp/0941936090, read as many threads on shaper work here as you can stand with special attention to Joe Calhoon's posts and get some in-person instruction from a competent shaper hand. Shapers are powerful and versatile machines with pitfalls for the unwary.

That looks like a nice heavy duty tilting spindle machine. You should be able to do most anything with a 1 1/4" or 30mm spindle. Put a dial indicator on it to check for runout.

[andrew whicker]

Will do. Definitely the most intimidating equipment so far.

[brent stanley]

Those look like moulder heads and though lots of folks run them on shapers, I strongly suggest MAN rated (low kickback, chip limiting) tooling especially for a newbie. It's a nice machine if it cleans up OK and will be a huge asset for your shop, but demand some training/study before you do much with it.

Congratulations, you're off on an adventure!

B

[Phillip Mitchell]

Good to see a few more views of that beast. Share some more up close photos and details of it when you can. Does it have a manufacture year stamped on the spec plate? Looks very similar era to the little, in comparison, Griggio T1000 that I just drug home from ‘85.

I just want first dibs if you decide to sell it

[Jared Sankovich]

Nice first? shaper. Those heads certainly look like moulder heads bushed down to 1.25". Did it also come with the original fence?

[andrew whicker]

Yeah, it did.

It's missing the power button.

And yes, those are molding heads and bushings. It looks like they had them stacked to get a 5 inch tall cut.

I've been looking and I really like the cutter style that allows limiters. I'm not sure which is better euro or corrugated... but the Whitehall site seems to be the easiest to navigate. I'm debating between a rabbet only but full spindle height or a combi 550 mm from them


I bought the shaper book so I'll hold off until I have a better idea.

Sounds like you need a min of a slot cutter (adjustable), a rabbet and a profile cutter. I'd like to have everything MAN rated if possible. I already inherited non MAN cutter heads (molder).

My power feed is 1 hp. I think that's on the low end (?) Which makes me further apprehensive of the molder heads.

[Phillip Mitchell]

1 hp feeder is fine / standard / totally adequate.

If you’re looking at Whitehill you might consider the large Combi head and reach out to Brent (Stanley) either here or on IG. He knows the Whitehill catalog backwards and forwards and very knowledgeable about shapers and MAN tooling.

[andrew whicker]

I'm also a bit confused about something you guys may be able to help with.

If I get the bladed combi head I can use it with a bearing for pattern work. However, once it is sharpened won't it lose the diameter over time?

I was thinking a carbide bit cutter for pattern work. This makes me think the combo cutter isn't as valuable except for their carbide cutters at the corners.

So I'm still figuring it out I guess.

[brent stanley]

I'm also a bit confused about something you guys may be able to help with.

If I get the bladed combi head I can use it with a bearing for pattern work. However, once it is sharpened won't it lose the diameter over time?

I was thinking a carbide bit cutter for pattern work. This makes me think the combo cutter isn't as valuable except for their carbide cutters at the corners.

So I'm still figuring it out I guess.

Hi Andrew, that combi head is a great option for non-industrial users because it's a fully featured, no compromise combination of two of the most often used blocks for a lot of users for much less outlay than seperate blocks. For operators really pushing efficiency and counting the minutes of their day, clearly seperate blocks are more versatile, but these blocks are very popular with small shops doing professional work, but just may not be using their shapers 40 hours a week.

The limiter section uses HSS knives that can be custom ground to your specs but also a huge selection of inexpensive knives "off the shelf" too that can be tipped in carbide if desired. The rebate block section uses reversible carbide inserts to make the straight cut. A bearing can be had that matches this diameter and will always match because the carbides don't get sharpened, just reversed when dull and reinstalled to keep the diameters matching perfectly. The carbide spurrs make clean inside corners. The spurrs and carbide inserts do not need to be removed when using knives and limiters in the limiter section. The block can be used flush mounted on the top of the spindle too for one sided tenoning if you want. Your machine could certainly run the larger of the two options which permits the heavier steel knives (as well as the regular 4mm steel) for more versatility.

[brent stanley]

A good starter set is going to vary a bit by what the person is or will get up to but I'll go out of a limb and say many folks would benefit from the following:

1 - A 96x55 limiter block. This is MAN rated and lets you run the inexpensive 40mm x 40mm knives for Euroblocks that are common in North America, as well as the huge collection of 55mm knives that have more reach and allows higher profiles.
2 - A Z4, dual shear rebate block at 125mm diameter. A great pattern, rabbiting, widthing block. Whitehill's are designed to be stacked with the 96x55 block to make sticking profile and rebate in one pass if desired for simple doors/windows.
3 - 4-15mm adjustable groover. This has enough range for groove and panel passageway and cabinet doors and is the set I use most often.

If you wanted deeper profiles the Z4 rebate could be replaced with a large combi which runs thicker steel and leave you with a Z2 rebate block, or a separate block could be bought for that running either pin knives or corrugated in limiter style. If you did a lot of pattern work, a matching bearing would be good too, or set yourself up with a ring fence. Not many folks doing raised panels nowadays, but if that's popular in your area, that might be more important than others. The options really are almost limitless, but starting with the versatility of a limiter block allows you to figure out what products you end up making mountains of which would justify an investment in more sophisticated carbide insert models with faster set-up and longer run times. If you end up making mountains of kitchen doors you can invest in an insert style kitchen door set, but still have the immensely versatile limiter blocks for other things you get up to.

Hope this helps more than overwhelms!

[Mel Fulks]

You just move the knives to the next corg . “ I’m your next -corg neighbor “. And bearings of different sizes can make for
more exact placement.

[Jared Sankovich]

I'd say this pretty well covers most applications.

4-15mm groover
20-39mm groover/tenon discs
125x60 alternating shear rebate head
120mm euro block
Insert pattern head
Corrugated head.
20230321_190037.jpg

[John P Clark]

Looks like a nice heavy duty shaper - if you have not used a shaper in your shop, I would suggest that you attend the alpine workshops for advanced woodworking - in four days you would learn how to best utilize the shaper in your workshop