Where will carbide be used next in the woodworking shop?

[Steve Mathews]

While thinking about the amount of HSS being replaced with carbide in tools I wonder what will be next - hand plane irons? hand saws? wood chisels? woodturning gouges? We're already seeing carbide inserts on woodturning gouges, planers and jointers. And what about the whole industry not to mention the skills involved in sharpening HSS tools?

[Ron Citerone]

I remember learning that Carbide will stay sharp longer and burn less than HSS, but HSS could be brought to a finer edge. Not sure if that is still or ever was correct. If true I would think plane irons and chisels would be made from HSS unless carbide has an advance in technology. Just my musing. Perhaps others will have more insight than me.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

I am trying to decide if the next batch of WoodMizer Blades will be carbide tipped. Shipping costs have gone up enough to give me pause when thinking of sending a batch off for sharpening. The last of H.S.S. that have been sharpened and hard surfaced at the farm are getting brittle and breaking. It is something I need to do the math on... I do not have enough personal data on carbide tipped bandsaw blades. I am pleased with the one in the shop. It is my first one.

[Edward Weber]

The main drawback to carbide is corner strength.
You're not going to see anything with an acute angle like a plane iron or chisel until there's a "major" leap forward in this area.

[Andrew Hughes]

I don’t see how carbide can replace chisels or handplanes. I don’t even like it for jointer knives
I’m patiently waiting for some handplane blade for my Lie Neilson bench and apron planes from Lake Erie Toolworks. If I remember correctly it’s powered metal. https://www.lakeerietoolworks.com/
I don’t like A2 very much.

[Steve Mathews]

I was first introduced to nanograin carbide cutters for woodturning by Lyle Jamieson. Apparently the fine grain structure of this carbide can equal the sharpness of HSS. See Lyle's website and the following for some details on it. I don't know whether it can be applied to plane irons and chisels but I thought the same thing about circular saw blades and now they're almost ubiquitous. I think one of the reasons it may be slow in coming is that the market is very limited and may not be worth the effort to develop.
https://www.accu-slice.com/hunter-tool-system.html

[John TenEyck]

I am trying to decide if the next batch of WoodMizer Blades will be carbide tipped. Shipping costs have gone up enough to give me pause when thinking of sending a batch off for sharpening. The last of H.S.S. that have been sharpened and hard surfaced at the farm are getting brittle and breaking. It is something I need to do the math on... I do not have enough personal data on carbide tipped bandsaw blades. I am pleased with the one in the shop. It is my first one.

Shipping is free on Woodmizer blades, Maurice, if you buy 5 or more. The standard steel blades are incredibly cheap, less than $25 each for the 144" ones on my mill. I find my sawmill blades break after 8 to 10 running hours, for the two brands I've used. That being the case, I can't justify the cost of a carbide blade. I can't even justify the cost of bimetal blades, especially considering the possibility of hitting metal in the mostly urban logs I cut. I sharpen the blades with a homebuilt automatic sharpener that I built for about $100, so there's no need to send them out for sharpening. After 2 or 3 sharpenings they have 8 to 10 running hours and usually break. I'm OK with that. I'll have cut at least 1000 BF with that blade, so that works out to $0.025/bf in blade cost.

Here's a link to the sharpener I built: https://sites.google.com/view/jteney...ner?authuser=1

John

[Maurice Mcmurry]

It is a Dilemma. I worked side by side woh a guy who had a cheap B&D hand held power planer. It used inexpensive, reversible , carbide inserts. I had (have) a more expensive Roybi with H.S.S. . I sharpened my Ryobi 3 times before he ever had to flip his carbide inserts. My Ryobi is almost (totally, but I still use it) obsolete because the blades are too short to sharpen and have been discontinued for years. Carbide inserts for the B&D are still available. It is time for me to get a new power plane. I am thinking I will get a Makita with H.S.S.

[Bill Dufour]

Carbide tipped chainsaw chains are being sold today.
In metal working polycrytaline diamond is replacing carbide in some high production shops. Higher speed of cut and longer life between sharpening makes up for higher cost.
Bill D

[Maurice Mcmurry]

Thanks John. This is very helpful. We have the Woodmizer sharpener and hard surfacer. My brother quit doing his own sharpening because he could not get results as good as ones done by Woodmizer. I have 4 new H.S.S. blades left. then I will re-familiarize myself with sharpening.

[Cameron Wood]

It is a Dilemma. I worked side by side woh a guy who had a cheap B&D hand held power planer. It used inexpensive, reversible , carbide inserts. I had (have) a more expensive Roybi with H.S.S. . I sharpened my Ryobi 3 times before he ever had to flip his carbide inserts. My Ryobi is almost (totally, but I still use it) obsolete because the blades are too short to sharpen and have been discontinued for years. Carbide inserts for the B&D are still available. It is time for me to get a new power plane. I am thinking I will get a Makita with H.S.S.

Why would you do that? IME, power planes are rather crude, and semi disposable tools. The first line of attack where they will meet grit, nails, old finishes, and other nasty stuff.

I've tried to keep one tuned up to a higher level but it doesn't last. The 6" Makita is the exception, but it only comes out after a 3 1/4" one has run interference.

[Jay Houghton]

The issue with carbide is the crystal size. When it's sintered it forms crystals that are of a size that no matter how you sharpen it, it can only get so sharp because the crystal size prohibits it. With HSS the steel crystals are extremely small, especially after heat treating so you can get an extremely fine edge with it. For that reason fine cutting tools like chisels and carving tools will probably always be made from HSS. The exception is PMV-11 which is a powdered metal that Veritas uses in their chisels and plane blades. If the carbide industry comes along and creates a product with crystalline structure that is better than HSS I think you'd find a stampede to that product. I've had many years of jointers and and planers with HSS blades and after the 2 hours of getting them adjusted they cut like a surgeon, but alas not for very long.

BTW, I have a Lenox Tri-Master on my 24" bandsaw and it will plow through 10" of white oak likes it's not there. Not cheap, but what a blade.

[Steve Mathews]

The issue with carbide is the crystal size. When it's sintered it forms crystals that are of a size that no matter how you sharpen it, it can only get so sharp because the crystal size prohibits it. With HSS the steel crystals are extremely small, especially after heat treating so you can get an extremely fine edge with it. For that reason fine cutting tools like chisels and carving tools will probably always be made from HSS. The exception is PMV-11 which is a powdered metal that Veritas uses in their chisels and plane blades. If the carbide industry comes along and creates a product with crystalline structure that is better than HSS I think you'd find a stampede to that product. I've had many years of jointers and and planers with HSS blades and after the 2 hours of getting them adjusted they cut like a surgeon, but alas not for very long.

BTW, I have a Lenox Tri-Master on my 24" bandsaw and it will plow through 10" of white oak likes it's not there. Not cheap, but what a blade.

Jay,
Just the point. The nanograin structure of these new carbides is achieving the sharpness similarly obtained with HSS. And apparently they're coming out of the molds this way. You may want to visit Lyle Jamieson's website and the other link I posted earlier.

[Richard Coers]

I can't wait until the first carbide screwdrivers arrive. I'll never have to sharpen one again!

[Jay Houghton]

Ah! Exactly....I'm not totally up to speed on the latest in metallurgy. But let me ask a question. Isn't turning essentially a scraping type of material removal? The material contacts the carbide tool at a perpendicular angle (or close) thus removing material by scraping. Chisels, jointers and planers are cutting tools which work differently, and of course wear differently. A cutting tool makes a lousy scraper and a scraper makes a lousy cutting tool.