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Thread: Warning: Arc Faults and Festool

  1. #1

    Warning: Arc Faults and Festool

    In my new workshop build out I found that my bandsaw was tripping the breaker whenever a Felder vacuum was plugged in. No other gear, just the Felder, and not on, just plugged in. I was also seeing it with the Kapax but not consistently. The electrician came out, verified that there was no short, the bandsaw peaked at 4 amps and nothing seemed wrong. He suggested it might be the new code for circuit breakers now detect arc faults (AFCI).

    A little googling and I found one other person with the same problem and they verified that some Felder equipment will trip the breaker when other equipment is turned on. The electrician says he sees this problem with smart devices. The AFCI interprets the devices normal usage as an arc fault, and as the requirement for AFCI are new, a lot of devices haven't been updated to not trip them. He spent an hour verifying there was nothing wrong with the circuit when the Felder was not plugged in.

    The Felder plugged into that circuit without anything else running works fine.

    I am not an electrician, just thought I'd share my experience so anyone doing a new build out is aware it might happen to them.
    Last edited by Bruce Page; 07-04-2023 at 1:46 PM. Reason: Title changed from Felder to Festool

  2. #2
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    Arc Fault are important for safety in many situations, but indeed can be problematic for certain uses...there are many kinds of devices that can falsely trigger them. I remember another discussion about this awhile back, actually. I wouldn't use them in a shop situation, especially for dedicated machine circuits. In some cases, that might mean a bit of dancing if an inspector insists on them to pass the job. When the final inspection occurs also can impact that. Although AFCI isn't require here universally as we are not yet under the NEC 2020 version, the fact that my new shop electrical received final inspection with just the panel and one working GFCI outlet too the whole matter off the table. But it's a separate building not attached to our home. In the end, everything is local when it comes to electrical code enforcement.
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    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  3. #3
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    Michael, was that a Felder or Festool vacuum?

    Regards, Rod.

  4. #4
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    Arc faults were new to me when working in Durham NC. We were required to install them on any new circuit. A few of my tools would trip several breakers at once. After extensive trouble shooting the power company finally found a loose neutral connection at the pole. Once that was corrected the problem stoped.
    Best Regards, Maurice

  5. #5
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    I wonder how many things have been saved by an arc fault breaker.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom M King View Post
    I wonder how many things have been saved by an arc fault breaker.
    The original intention was apparently to guard against folks (especially kids) getting fried when "ever popular" extension cords were used improperly and wore through. That's one reason why the mandates started in sleeping spaces, to my understanding.
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    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  7. #7
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    How about a power strip attached to a power strip attached to a power strip all with about 15 devices plugged in! lol.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Inami View Post
    How about a power strip attached to a power strip attached to a power strip all with about 15 devices plugged in! lol.
    Certainly "fun" to troubleshoot which device is being ornery with your arc fault breaker.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  9. #9
    Arrrrg, finger memory, Festool not Felder.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    The original intention was apparently to guard against folks (especially kids) getting fried when "ever popular" extension cords were used improperly and wore through. That's one reason why the mandates started in sleeping spaces, to my understanding.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom M King View Post
    I wonder how many things have been saved by an arc fault breaker.
    Not able to protect extension cords & the whole process to get them included into code was filled with deceit, making the users the beta test, unlike GFCI's,which are proven to work, nobody can prove AFCI's do every brand of them having different proprietary circuitry, I call AFCI's snake oil.

  11. #11
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    Okay, I have a question here. It seems that arc-fault AFCI breakers will trip sometimes on high current motors from woodworking machines. Do the GFCI breakers/outlets have the same problem?

  12. #12
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    I don't think GFCI have the same problems although there are reports they can be a problem when used with electronic single to 3 phase converters like VFDs driving motors.
    I hadn't heard about high-current motors be categorized as a AFCI problem but any motor with brushes can be due to their inherent arcing and sparking especially when older.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Inami View Post
    Okay, I have a question here. It seems that arc-fault AFCI breakers will trip sometimes on high current motors from woodworking machines. Do the GFCI breakers/outlets have the same problem?
    They GFCI’s can trip when starting or stopping inductive loads, induction motors can trip them during opening of the centrifugal switch due to current asymmetry.

    AFCI’s can trip due to arcing in wound rotor motors or centrifugal switch opening in induction motors.

    Regards, Rod

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Rutman View Post
    Arrrrg, finger memory, Festool not Felder.
    Makes sense now, thanks for the correction

    Regards, Rod

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Rutman View Post
    Arrrrg, finger memory, Festool not Felder.
    Makes sense now, thanks for the correction

    Regards, Rod

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