Contributor
Beautiful work, Phil.
Time to eat some humble pie. I looked up the info. on those stereo cabinets I showed above and found that I did not use India Ink; I used GF's water based wood stain in black. I'm not sure why I chose that over India Ink, but it worked great beyond the grain raising issue that required sanding after the first coat and recoating. Sorry for any confusion, but at least I've shown there is another option to get a jet black color that doesn't mask the underlying grain.
John
Contributor
The ink I used (Speedball) is shellac based so it dries pretty fast. No grain raising issues either.
I got the idea from a YouTube video where a gentleman gave a presentation on the different ways to ebonize wood. He recommended India ink over the traditional tannin based methods and laid out the reasons why.
Contributor
I have fumed oak before using household ammonia. You need to cut the wood and sand to final profile. It will raise the grain and need to be sanded down smooth after fuming. I suppose you could use anhydrous ammonia and not raise the grain. That is much more dangerous. farmers use it as fertilizer dripped into irrigation water.
Put the wood raised so it is not touching the floor or each other. inside a cardboard box or plastic tub. sealed in a plastic bag. Put plate or small bowl of ammonia in side and wait overnight. It seems to work slower above 100 degrees or so.
Any iron will rust and black stain the wood.
When color is good remove from tent and air dry outside until all oder is gone. Color should go in 1/8 or more.
BilL D.
Contributor
I remember reading the biography of the famous French wood stain guy. As an apprentice they had to darken a new oak bank interior to meet government color code. They closed all the windows, set out buckets of ammonia and stuffed rags under the doors. After a few? hours they looked in and approved the darker color.
Interesting experiment put a piece of scrap oak in a sealed jar with some ammonia and wait a week or two. But cut off 1/2 inch each day to judge progress. Pool chlorine buckets are great for this
BilL D
Contributor
I fume quite a bit, and don't find it that big a deal. Can it be hazardous? Sure, if you're in an enclosed space and pour it all over exposed skin. If you follow some simple rules it's no more hazardous than it was when Mom used it to wash the kitchen floor.
I've used grocery store ammonia just like Bill Dufour. It works fine but takes a long time. Commercial cleaning ammonia is better, and blueprint ammonia is the best. I do it outside using a plastic tub for small projects or a large cardboard box for the big stuff. I prefer to fume after final assembly. For the table below I just poured a few ounces of blueprint ammonia in a plastic dish, set the table over that, and dropped a big box over the top of the whole thing. It sat for 3-4 hours. The Japanese toolbox and small frame below sat longer and wound up quite a bit darker. When complete I pour the waste ammonia on my compost pile. It likes the nitrogen.
I'd like to try some Sapele sometime. When fumed it's about the color of dark chocolate. I've ebonized oak before with steel wool dissolved in vinegar and with an ebony stain. Both looked good with a simple oil/shellac/wax finish.
Sharp solves all manner of problems.
Contributor
These are really nice!Originally Posted by Phillip Mitchell
Sharp solves all manner of problems.
Friend of the Creek
Before I retired from making gallery quality crafts, I made a lot of products that needed a good black finish. After trying many ideas, I settled on Fiebing's alcohol based leather dye. Some woods did better than others with walnut, cherry, and sapele being some of the best.
[OP]
Contributor
Thanks all for the advice. For the sapele, I think fuming or dying will be the way to go, and I will probably do a little experimenting. I think the translucence with a little red/brown of the sapele peeking through would look nice. The India ink does look great on ash and oak as the grain is revealed in a subtle manner. If my wife pushes for a purer black finish, I will switch out the wood species and use India ink.
Chris
Moderator
Don't fume it. Don't use steel and vinegar. Your wife is clear what she wants: black.
Your best bet is one of two options:
1) black india ink as people have mentioned. This will give you the "truest" black. You will still notice the grain underneath if that's the look you are after. Some people perceive India ink as a truer black than Transtint, which can be perceived as blue-black. I concur, but beauty is in the dye of the beholder.
2) A dye. I've used Transtint and (even better) WD Lockwood dyes. Use this option if you don't want a true black, but perhaps an "espresso". I did my bathroom vanity and cabinets using one of their dyes. It worked great. It's better than "stain" you might purchase, such as Minwax, because it contains no binder. You can therefore apply repeated doses to get darker - something you cannot do with stain, but is critical to do with dark colors. WD lockwood sells (or at least used to sell) sample kits, so you can 5 different ones, mix them, and experiment. That's how we achieved "our perfect" shade of espresso.
One more tip, if you choose to go option 2. if you wish to get fancy, you can do color layers. This can give you color depth and dimension. It's hard to describe until you've seen it, but it's like seeing tones of gold or red underneath the brown or black.
Contributor
Well, I have fumed white oak, cherry and maple. Mainly small pieces for saw handles, turnings and such. I use the 10% Ammonia you can purchase at
Ace Hardware, usually. Takes a little while, but after a few days it is pretty much all the way through. My parts are always in a semi sealed container, so no real danger unless you plan on sticking your face in it. I have also used black solvent dye, ( not stain ), to dye small parts and larger pieces of red oak for a book rack. The solvent dyes seem to work best when sprayed and allowed to soak in, but it is also messy to do and evaporates quickly. So NOW I am going to have to try some Sapele, since I have about 100 bd ft of quarter cut just waiting to become something.
[OP]
Contributor
Post your result if you do. It may be a month or two before I have time to start my expirements.
Chris
Contributor
I will cut a small piece off today and start it.
[OP]
Contributor
Hmm... Finally got around to running a test run of fuming the Sapele. The below is after 2 days of fuming using 29% Ammonium hydroxide ( https://www.amazon.com/Ammonium-Hydr.../dp/B00URU19UI). The fumed piece is a cut off from the board below. Based upon the veneer products, I expected much darker. Perhaps my seal was not good enough. I used a plastic storage box and taped around the lid with packing tape. I am going to let this go for a few more days. I also put a plastic bag under the lid to try to get a better seal. Edit: Top piece is fumed and is a cutoff of the piece underneath which is not fumed.
fumingAfter2Days2.jpg
Last edited by Christian Hawkshaw; 10-02-2023 at 10:58 AM.
Chris
Contributor
Sapele? That looks nothing like the Sapele I've used.
John
[OP]
Contributor
That picture is somewhat washed out under the bright LED light fixture. Here is the same piece, not directly under the lights. Maybe this looks more like it?
top unfinished.jpg
Chris
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