Finish Help General Finishes Oil Stain and Gel Stain

[Vijay Kumar]

Help. I am having a tough time with applying stain to a bookshelf project. The primary frame panel is made out of maple (or similar hardwood), the inset panels are plywood. The shelves are maple (or similar hardwood).
I used GF Oil Stain Antique Cherry to first do the shelves. They generally came out OK.
I then used the same product to do the frames and the inset panels. The whole project was to sanded to a 150 grit. Coated with mineral spirits to "make the finish glide" per video from GF. Then gel coated. The results were terrible. Blotchy etc. So I scraped and sanded and applied the GF oil based gel stain Candlelight. The results are again. The outside panel has one coat and the inside panel has 2 coats. Blotchy mess. The plywood panels are particularly bad, but even the maple frame is blotchy.
I am sure I am sure I am doing something wrong. Dont mind scraping and sanding again. I do prefer the color tone of the Antique Cherry oil stain.
All my previous finishing experiences have been with Watco Danish oil (clear no color) and they have been great. But they were all on solid wood such as cherry , pine or other hardwood. Never on plywood panels.
Please help with some suggestions on what to do next.

[John TenEyck]

It's not clear what your process was for the frame and panels. Could you please list, in order, the products and process you used?

John

[Vijay Kumar]

By process I assume you mean the woodworking process for making the frame and panel. Sorry . This was an acquired bookshelf, so I have no idea.

[John TenEyck]

By process I assume you mean the woodworking process for making the frame and panel. Sorry . This was an acquired bookshelf, so I have no idea.

No, your finishing process. Exactly what products did you use, and in what order?

John

[Vijay Kumar]

No, your finishing process. Exactly what products did you use, and in what order?

John

On the shelves it was the GF Oil stain antique cherry, 2 coats. Fairly happy with the results.
On the frame and panel , 150 grit sanding, then a coat of mineral spirits. After just dry, a coat of GF gel stain. Wait for 24 hours, then lightly sand with 220 grit, clean the dust. Then do another coat of the gel stain. Not too thrilled with the results. (BTW I had the same results with the oil stain and hence I switched to the gel stain).

[Brian Tymchak]

Vijay, I feel that what you may be referring to as a "blotchy mess" is the result of not properly wiping the gel stain off. Applying stains is night and day different to applying an oil based varnish. John is by far much more of a finishing expert, and thus, will offer better advice than I could. Two things that I will advise though is to wipe stain off with the grain and to practice your finish process on scrap before applying to your project.

Secondly, I notice an extensive amount of "pig tails" on the panels. These are the curly loops in your panel and are the result of using a random orbit sander incorrectly. You may have been using too much pressure, or leaning on one edge of the pad and moving too quickly.. Also, you may not have properly cleaned your panel when changing grits and trapped a large piece of grit under the paper. The curls really stand out when stain is applied as those little grooves retain more stain. I recommend getting some practice using the ROS to achieve a more even finish.. Actually, on a small panel like that, I would not use a ROS, opting instead to hand sand using a sanding block, and ALWAYS sand with the grain.

[John TenEyck]

On the shelves it was the GF Oil stain antique cherry, 2 coats. Fairly happy with the results.
On the frame and panel , 150 grit sanding, then a coat of mineral spirits. After just dry, a coat of GF gel stain. Wait for 24 hours, then lightly sand with 220 grit, clean the dust. Then do another coat of the gel stain. Not too thrilled with the results. (BTW I had the same results with the oil stain and hence I switched to the gel stain).

Thanks. OK, I agree with Brian, your prep work should be better. Maple is difficult to stain w/o blotching, so it's critical to have everything sanded uniformly and with no visible scratches. Wiping it with mineral spirits will help you see any scratches. But once dry it does nothing for subsequent finishing processes. Since you have had problems with both a typical oil stain and with the gel stain, I would seal the wood first before applying the gel stain. So the process would be: strip or sand back to raw wood, sand uniformly to 150 or 180 grit, seal the wood with one or two coats of dewaxed shellac, sanding lightly between coats with 320 grit, wipe on a coat of gel stain, wipe off thoroughly after a few minutes, wipe on additional coats until you build to the desired darkness, again wiping off thoroughly each time.

Practice on scrap prepared the same way. As you learn you'll find that you actually can leave some of the gel stain on, rather than wiping it completely off, and that you can wipe harder in some areas, less in others, to achieve a more uniform result. When you're done, using multiple, thin coats, you should be able to achieve a uniform color w/o much if any blotching.

Good luck,

John

[Vijay Kumar]

Thank you Brian for your helpful comments. I will give that a go. Sigh . Stripping one more time.

Vijay, I feel that what you may be referring to as a "blotchy mess" is the result of not properly wiping the gel stain off. Applying stains is night and day different to applying an oil based varnish. John is by far much more of a finishing expert, and thus, will offer better advice than I could. Two things that I will advise though is to wipe stain off with the grain and to practice your finish process on scrap before applying to your project.

Secondly, I notice an extensive amount of "pig tails" on the panels. These are the curly loops in your panel and are the result of using a random orbit sander incorrectly. You may have been using too much pressure, or leaning on one edge of the pad and moving too quickly.. Also, you may not have properly cleaned your panel when changing grits and trapped a large piece of grit under the paper. The curls really stand out when stain is applied as those little grooves retain more stain. I recommend getting some practice using the ROS to achieve a more even finish.. Actually, on a small panel like that, I would not use a ROS, opting instead to hand sand using a sanding block, and ALWAYS sand with the grain.

[Vijay Kumar]

Thank you John for confirming what Brian said. Will give it one more shot.

[Vijay Kumar]

One more question . Is it better to use a dewaxed shellac or the pre stain conditioner as the first step after sanding?

[John TenEyck]

One more question . Is it better to use a dewaxed shellac or the pre stain conditioner as the first step after sanding?

Shellac. There's no space in my finish cabinet for pre stain conditioner.

John

[Vijay Kumar]

Thanks John.