Problem Cutting Teeth in New Saw Plates

[Matt Hunstiger]

A while back I purchased some antique saws that needed new plates. So I got the plates and just started cutting the notches on one plate with a hacksaw to get the tooth spacing. I am amazed (concerned) at how the saw plate is chewing up the hacksaw blade, and am worried about using my saw files on this sheet of steel. I had read that 1095 steel was the way to go for saw plates, so I bought,

0.025" Blue Tempered Spring Steel Sheet 1095 from OnlineMetals dot com. I removed the bluing with acid for aesthetics.

I used the Paul Sellers suggestion of filing down the first bit of teeth on the hacksaw so the blade can glide into the cut, and I also did as he suggested and gently hammered out the waviness of the hacksaw blade. I also made the quick and dirty spacing jib in this video by James Wright (https://youtu.be/Q3JYn2AOID4), seen below.
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The hacksaw blade, 24T from Greatneck. It was new when I started. Hope you can see the teeth are being demolished.
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The teeth cut so far. It's a little more ragged than I would like, but not bad, considering the difficulty I'm having getting the hacksaw going. The jig spacing is 13tpi. I think this jig/method is pretty slick.
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So, the new saw plate is playing holy havoc with the hacksaw blade, and compared to what I see in the instructional videos by Sellers and Wright, I am having a hard time getting the hacksaw to start the cut, or get the cut going. Watching them, it's like the blade is a hot knife through butter on the saw plates. A couple strokes, boom, down to depth, done. I am struggling to get the hacksaw going, even with the toe end teeth filed down. I am doing at least twice as many strokes to get down to depth of a couple mm.

So, uh, what am I doing wrong here? Wrong replacement steel? Wrong hacksaw? Wrong everything?

Happy to be educated,
Matt

[Richard Coers]

I don't consider Great Neck as a premium brand of hacksaw blades. I prefer Lennox.

[Mark Rainey]

Hacksaw blade 32TPI needed.

[Jim Koepke]

The jig spacing is 13tpi. I think this jig/method is pretty slick.

Maybe it is just the photo, but those cuts look too deep for a 13tpi saw.

It would surprise me if a hacksaw blade is much harder than tempered spring steel.

A file is harder than a saw plate and still can get an edge worn out sharpening a single saw.

There are a few sites on the internet with files having lines to guide when filing a new saw plate.

Here is one > https://www.blackburntools.com/artic...tes/index.html

When filing on a blank plate, my first cut was made with a long three sided file. It was just to make a guide line. After all the guide lines were cut, the plate was filed with the correct size file for the tooth count. It was slow and not trying to cut to full depth on the first pass.

jtk

[Rafael Herrera]

I would always take youtubers advise with a grain of salt over someone that does this kind of thing on a regular basis.

If you think about it, 0.025" is a really thin plate and the teeth of a 32tpi hacksaw blade are just 0.031" apart, not the ideal conditions for a smooth cut.

Why don't you just use the file after you've notched the plate?

There are experts that post on this forum that probably have better advise.

[Chuck Hill]

I've been told that a thin cut-off wheel in a Dremel type tool works well.

[Luke Dupont]

I've made a ton of sawblades from scratch and also recut teeth in existing saws, and I've found hacksaws and dremels to be way, way more work than necessary.

Your hacksaw's teeth are too coarse for the thickness of the plate. Your saw plate also needs to be extremely well supported right up to where the gullies of the teeth will be or even further (if you use a thin piece of wood). Vibration will shear off teeth from hacksaws and even files.

A light, a steady hand, and a bunch of cheap saw files are the easiest route.

Here's a video of me cutting saw teeth for reference:
Starting the teeth, first pass:
https://youtu.be/OSwCkn9HDlc
Finishing the teeth, second pass:
https://youtu.be/JIRjW3hI5jA

Note: Because I'm making super thin blades, I actually doubled up two spring steel ribbons to make two at a time in order to reduce vibration and tooth shearing. Even then, there's more vibration than is ideal. A single thick blade is easier to work with.

Also, 13TPI is really difficult to cut. You'll need quite small files and a good eye and hand, and a hacksaw is way, way too thick. I have actually recut 13TPI teeth before, but... I'd suggest 10tpi for your first saw plate. Even that can be difficult. It's quite nice to have an aggressive cut, too. For my bow saw, I quite enjoy 8TPI and I generally work with smallish and more delicate pieces. It's perfect for any stock down to 1/2" and can even go down to 3/8" if angled.

Yes, I'm starting each cut with the file on the back cut, which will no doubt draw negativity from many metal working purists. I consider the "don't pull the file back" thing a myth; the amount of wear is still equal to the amount of material you remove, and you DO remove material on the back stroke. Also, just try starting on the push stroke with such a thin plate -- it's impossible and definitely not accurate.

[Jim Koepke]

I consider the "don't pull the file back" thing a myth

There is a video > https://youtu.be/xbykic--SKA < that busts this "don't pull the file back" myth. He is using soft steel, so the results may be different on a harder steel. At the end of the video he does mention wanting to try different materials. This video is at least a year old, so he may have done further testing.

jtk

[Mike Allen1010]

Cutting new side teeth from scratch in a new saw plate is a very tough row to hoe! Especially if you haven’t done a lot of saw sharpening before. Much easier to restore an existing tooth line, then create one from scratch – very tough to get tooth spacing accurate. I admire your determination – good luck!!

[Matt Hunstiger]

Thank you all for your comments, suggestions, and encouragement. I went out and bought a 32 tpi Lenox blade last night. It worked much better. Below is a picture of how it looks after I finished cutting the spacing last night. This is the first time I've done a new plate from scratch, but not the first time sharpening, so it is interesting. The tape measure says I might be looking at more like 12 tpi than 13, but that doesn't really matter. Jim, you may be right that I was cutting too deep for 13tpi. I guess we will see when I file the teeth. I have a decent set of Bahco saw files. I placed a strip of masking tape across the plate at 2mm, but I tried to pull back a bit on that after reading the comments. We'll see how it goes. With any luck this little saw will soon be ready for more years of service. I bought it off of ebay with a ripped plate for not too much, but it had such a nice handle I wanted to rehab it.

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[Mark Rainey]

Good work Matt…I am glad the 32 teeth Lenox worked for you. Additionally if you saw with the blade almost in the same plane as the saw plate it will make the cut easier - that is do not saw at 90 degrees to the plate, tilt your hacksaw blade.

[Richard Coers]

Foley/Bellsaw automatic filers are down to around $75 in my region. I just bought another one just for parts. I see no reason to do it by hand now.

[Juergen Mueller]

Foley/Bellsaw automatic filers are down to around $75 in my region. I just bought another one just for parts. I see no reason to do it by hand now.

Oh! Would you please buy one and sell me that? (And ship to Germany? )

I use triangular needle files. One file lasts one or two saw blades.