Japanese Saw File Rasp vs. Auriou or Liogier

[Steve Catts]

All,
Lee Valley has taken me down a short rabbit hole by highlighting their Japanese saw rasp which has a coarse and fine side. I don't see these being mentioned in past threads when discussing Auriou or other French or Italian rasps. Can anyone speak to the virtues or vices of this approach vs. the classic european options? I did see mention of a Shinto reasp but no real comparitive info. I'm not sure if the Shinto rasp is the same type of product.

TIA,
Steve

[Jim Koepke]

It is a confusing rabbit hole to fall into Steve.

These are all tools designed to remove wood in various ways. They all provide their own advantages or disadvantages. They perform the task with different degrees of efficiency or finesse. These tools can leave a fine surface or a rough surface.

I have no personal experience with the Japanese saw rasp. I have used a few hacksaw blades stacked together with various results.

I like my Auriou rasps and many others including some rifflers and others picked up at yard sales and ebay.

Here is a test of a few of them > https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?255103 < Scroll down to the 8th post.

jtk

[Greg Parrish]

Steve,

I have one of the Japanese Shinto double sided rasps with handle. I bought it at a Woodcraft store one day on sale/clearance for $18. I've actually never used it as I haven't found a specific need yet.

On the other hand, I have 4 or 5 Liogier rasps and I love them. I chose them over the Auriou simply because I like the handle shape better. Their handle is a little shorter, thicker and more rounded than the Auriou. They sort of remind me a little of the handles on my LN chisels. They cut wonderfully and have been easy to care for. I need to build a rack to hold them to get them off my bench top.

Also recently picked up the 6" curved rasp set from Gramercy. They are another nicely made rasp that is an alternative to the other makers. They are beautifully made and worth consideration.

I used the Liogier 10" cabinet rasp with 11 grain teeth to rough out and round this box handle. There were times I wished to also have a 6 or 9 grain for heavier wood removal, and then also a 14 grain for finer clean up, but the 11 grain made it happen well enough for my skill level. Lots of errors made in this handle but it was my first attempt.

box6.jpg

[Mike King]

Steve,

I have one of the Japanese Shinto double sided rasps with handle. I bought it at a Woodcraft store one day on sale/clearance for $18. I've actually never used it as I haven't found a specific need yet.

On the other hand, I have 4 or 5 Liogier rasps and I love them. I chose them over the Auriou simply because I like the handle shape better. Their handle is a little shorter, thicker and more rounded than the Auriou. They sort of remind me a little of the handles on my LN chisels. They cut wonderfully and have been easy to care for. I need to build a rack to hold them to get them off my bench top.

Also recently picked up the 6" curved rasp set from Gramercy. They are another nicely made rasp that is an alternative to the other makers. They are beautifully made and worth consideration.

I used the Liogier 10" cabinet rasp with 11 grain teeth to rough out and round this box handle. There were times I wished to also have a 6 or 9 grain for heavier wood removal, and then also a 14 grain for finer clean up, but the 11 grain made it happen well enough for my skill level. Lots of errors made in this handle but it was my first attempt.

box6.jpg

I have several of the Loigier rasps and used one of the Japanese saw rasps in a class with Larry White at Anderson Ranch. The saw rasps are pretty useful for removing large amounts of stock in shaping. They tend to be less aggressive than my most aggressive rasp, but more aggressive than the finest. Personally, I'm more fond of my rasps, but that may be nothing more than familiarity. Larry like the saw rasps more than the Ranch's Nicholson's, but that may be a lack of care...

I was shaping the legs on this bench -- inspired by Sam Malloof (hence the tie to Larry).

IMG_3267.jpeg

[Cameron Wood]

I've had that saw rasp for decades, and rarely use it. Don't think I would miss it if it was gone.

Rough shaping is more often in curves, so a half round rasp is more useful, but I don't use those much either.

[glenn bradley]

I have a couple of straight and a handled (plane style) Shinto. They are all real handy for free forming legs and such. They are also great for tuning templates and patterns. I would not want to be without more traditional rasps but a straight Shinto and a half-round whatever would handle most of my needs.

[Derek Cohen]

All,
Lee Valley has taken me down a short rabbit hole by highlighting their Japanese saw rasp which has a coarse and fine side. I don't see these being mentioned in past threads when discussing Auriou or other French or Italian rasps. Can anyone speak to the virtues or vices of this approach vs. the classic european options? I did see mention of a Shinto reasp but no real comparitive info. I'm not sure if the Shinto rasp is the same type of product.

TIA,
Steve

Steve, I have and frequently use Aurio rasps, Shinto saw rasps, and the Japanese rasps with horizontal teeth. One should add to this collection, which I often finish on, files.

The Shinto saw rasps have a coarse and a fine side. This is an excellent rasp for wasting wood. Coarse-for-coarse, it leaves a finer finish than traditional rasps, such as Aurio. Where Aurio are better is when you need to finesse a shape. The Japanese rasps (straight teeth) can leave the best finish of all, but they are the trickiest to use - east to catch as the cut starts. Fine files are just magic for finishing and smoothing a surface.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Mark Rainey]

I agree with most of what was said above. The LV rasp is a Shinto rasp with handle. I really like the Shinto rasp for rough work - it is very fast. You can get a Shinto for less money without the handle - I have 2 and do not use the handle. Get one. I also have Liogier rasps and Auriou rasps. I use them often. I have Corradi Italian rasps, but am not thrilled.

The chair stiles and legs have been shaped using all the above rasps, as well as files and card scrapers. rasps.jpg

[Jim McCue]

The Lee Valley rasps are shinto rasps. You can see the label in the second picture. I think Lee Valley often doesn't say the brand names of third party products they sell so you can't comparison shop as easily. The Lee Valley one has a knob at the front, not all of them do.

Paul Sellers is a big fan of the shinto rasp. I have one but can't say I recommend it too highly. Mostly I think it's too bulky. OK for outside curves but not inside curves.

I do not have really nice rasps to compare to. I do have the lee valley "Hand-cut Half-round Rasp" and "Japanese Milled-Tooth File" which I prefer to the shinto rasp.

[Steve Catts]

Thank you all! Just the types of feedback I had hoped for. It seems the consensus is that the European rasps can do everything well if you have the right collection of tooth grains whereas the Shinto can’t work to all shapes (concave) and are therefore somewhat limited albeit able to produce a very nice finish.