Larger shaker doors _ Stile and Rail thickness

[andrew whicker]

Hi,

I'm looking at building some larger shaker doors (single panel) that are about 4.5 ft tall by 18 inches wide. They will be inset into a FF.

I thought because of the size, I would make the stiles and rails around 1" to 1 1/8" thick. Thoughts? Does a door this big require being broken into two panels to remain stable? I'm worried about building an inset door this big.

[Jamie Buxton]

If you plan on using cup hinges (a Good Thing for inset doors), look carefully at them before you commit to a door thickness. Regular cup hinges don't handle thick doors. Thick door hinges do exist, but the last time I looked are only available for an opening angle of 95 degrees.

[Richard Coers]

Thickness and material for the panel? I don't see a big advantage of going from 13/16" to 1" in the rails and styles. I do see an advantage of using quarter sawn stock for stability.

[John TenEyck]

I would consider a mid rail, at least on the back side if you want a single panel on the show side, to keep the stiles from bowing. Another option would be to use a plywood panel. With that, you could glue it into the frame to create a very stable and strong door.

John

[chuck van dyck]

I agree with above regarding the plywood. I would also consider soss hinges or something similar.

I made 2 sets of bifold closet doors, 81x12” with qs oak and caning stretched to maple ply as panels. Still working in the same house from time to time and check on then. While the caning has unfortunately started to relax, the doors are flat as ever. The rails and stiles are 1x3 and joined with 8mm dominos and stub tenons.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

I have been spending some time in Enfield NH. The Shaker ascetic is a wonderful marriage of chunky and elegant. I will try to take a ruler and camera next time, if it is allowed. Short answer is make them thick.

[andrew whicker]

These are going to be painted. I was going to use MDF as the panel and maple for the stiles and rails. I'm undecided on panel thickness.

I like the idea of a 'half' rail on the back. I also like the idea of Soss hinges. Those are pretty fun and I haven't made anything that uses them yet.

[Phillip Mitchell]

Agree with the half / mid rail to help keep stiles flat. I don’t know that it needs to be 1” + thick at those dimensions, but it is a nice look and feel.

Regarding SOSS hinges, unless they have changed them recently then they have no adjustment potential once you have cut the mortises for them, which would be a bit of a nightmare on a tight tolerance inset door of that size. They also tend to have a little bit a slop in the mechanism that allows them to sag and you have to compensate a bit with slightly deeper mortise on the top hinges...and even then nothing is guaranteed and it can be a real nuisance. Don’t ask me how I know this.

If going concealed, I would recommended Sugatsune concealed hinges that are like SOSS but better made and have 3D adjustability within the hinge itself after mortising. They are more $ than SOSS. Templaco makes and sells router templates for most/all of them that I have seen.

I used the Sugatsune concealed hinges for a ~7/8” thick doors (I think…) on this curved wall cabinet I built last year and bought the Templaco template for that size. You are welcome to borrow it if you pay shipping and mail it back to me if you decide to go this route and the hinge size matches your project.

You could also use nice mortised butt hinges, like a house door or more traditional work.

I have used the Blum thick door cup hinges once on some large wardrobe doors (1” x 24”w x 80”t) and they worked well but did not go past 95* as stated above. Maybe there are some that do?

[Steve Clardy]

I stay with 13/16" on all cabinet doors.

[J.R. Rutter]

I don't know how a 1/4 - 3/8" thick mid rail on the back side is going to help keep anything flat. Maybe I'm just not understanding... But careful stock selection (don't try to polish a turd board on the jointer and expect it to stay flat long term) and a full mid rail will help.

[andrew whicker]

JR

That's one of my bigger concerns... To be honest, I gave up trying to joint the face of a 1" to 3/4" board long ago. You can push it the bow down with one finger. So I thought maker it thicker (or at least out of thicker stock) would help me by letting me actually joint the face flat.

Phillip,

I am going to check out those hinges. They sound pretty cool. I'm also interested in trying something different. I'll let you know on the template. I REALLY appreciate the offer.


The customer also wants the top doors to flip upward when he opens them. (it is a mudroom with bottom tall doors and a row of shorter top doors) I have to do some looking on wrt that hardware as well