Chess board round 2

[Michael Burnside]

There is no wrong answer to how thick the substrate should be. If you want to add a drawer for storage below, then it's much thicker, if you just want a 3/4"-1" thick board when all said and done, go with 1/2" or 3/4" MDF or ply of your choice. I would miter and spline the corners with a band of wood around the edges to hide the substrate. Might even raise the edge 1/16" higher than the board to give it dimension.

[Charlie Fox]

[QUOTE=Kent A Bathurst;3272955]John's correct - You weren't getting ripped. You were getting disagreed with and made it personal, I'm sad to say. And annoyed some very good folks in the process.

I'll lead with my chin one last time:.....

>>>>>>>>>

well if i pissed people off it wont be the first time and i apologize - but i question science - like i do Fauci. there are people that have posted here and other places where they crossed grain and 10 yrs later it is still fine. others had the project blow up in a matter of weeks. so obviously its not 100% but i juist think there is a medium goldilocks zone somewhere. i.e. i realize a poly finish will not seal the project from moisture - but it WILL prevent a certain amount, and if that certain amount is just enough to keep it from moving then its a win - thats all i tried to put across but people took that and similar logic to mean i wasnt listening at all - which is not the case. thats why i am now doing this project now and asking for more guidance. a stack of hay will break the camels back - but if you remove one straw at a time at some point the camels back doesnt break. thats all i intended to make clear. i have a hard science and engineering so i look at things in a very anlytical manner and constantly rethink things - sure you cant reinvent the wheel - but wheels are continuously being improved.

and a heartfelt THANK YOU for that link - makes total sense. however - and dont get angry lol - i think i will use the t track along with the tape because A) i already have it and B) it will allow me to use cauls just like he did oin that link to keep the boards flat, only even better imho. no clamping intended - but just a teensy bit to aid in alignment but still not enough to get any more squeezeout than the tape on its own does. clearly a tight clamping would be useless since this is a glue-up for attachment purposes only and not a joint that will have any stress.

with especially that link you so graciously took the time to provide along with the other comments both + and - i feel i have a clear path forward in all aspects. the blue tape totally capped it off - thanks again. plenty of that and tb3 always on hand around my garage shop.

i'll bow out now and will post my results in a few weeks - cant do anything sooner as i have to go to BC for 2 weeks and will totally enjoy getting away from this stifling texas summer.

and i DO thank you again. that totally cleared up the main dilemna i was facing on the construction.

[Jim Becker]

I agree with veneering the bottom, but largely because of appearance. The border will help keep things flat on something like this and if the thick veneer is applied with cauls and weight, it's more like laminating two boards, rather than veneering in the traditional sense but putting a layer on the bottom will assure things stay flatter easier. This should have been mentioned earlier...my bad for missing it, but I'm glad that John brought it up.

[Kent A Bathurst]

The veneer on the bottom is to provide moisture regulating similar to top side. Prevent warping. At the extreme end of caution you would use same species, thickness, and finish. Don’t forget the finish

[Charlie Fox]

The veneer on the bottom is to provide moisture regulating similar to top side. Prevent warping. At the extreme end of caution you would use same species, thickness, and finish. Don’t forget the finish

thanks to you and jim for confirming, the downside is it cuts my production from 9 boards to 4. it would look better as well i agree - but not too concerned with that other than it would give the appearance of solid wood, unless i stupidly turned it and A1 ended up being a light square. lol! or...... alternatively, i could just get some walnut or white oak 4/4, resaw it, plane to the same thickness and it would look far better than plain mdf, just not like a solid chess board. that might cost me $15 per board so certainly worth it to get my desired 9 boards.
and roger on the finish for the bottom, i always finish top and bottom equally. learned that looooooooooooong ago when i made a 8'x3'x6" pecan bar in college. didnt finish the bottom at all. my first project and boy did i learn from that mistake.

[Charlie Fox]

The .25" reference was for the solid stock thick veneer, not the substrate.

On your question about the edge banding, make it look proportional, but I'd likely stay below that 2" you ask about 'cause wood moves and miter the corners for the best look.

how do you think this was done - or at least should have been done?

the border pieces appear glued, as tight as they look. but that would mean (assuming 1/16" and 3/4" substrate) glueing the border to 3/4" of mdf and the 1/16" of walnut/oak thickness. is the bond of border to that 3/4" of mdf strong enough to keep the wood from moving? it almost seems we come back to where we started, the border is going to want to move but the substrate wont let it so something will have to give. yet i have seen several videos where the guys just glue the border straight to solid wood like i did before. of course just making a video doesnt mean your are an expert. plus i have seen plenty of boards for sale and in person where there is a solid wood border clearly attached with adhesive yet i know it is a veneer board over a substrate similar to this.


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[George Yetka]

3/4" minimum on the substrate. 1-1/2-2" total thickness I think would look ideal.

The rules about grain direction I dont believe are hard and fast. I think they are repeated and taught because when there is a failure the culprits are usually what cause the rules to be made. Yes you can make a cutting board that is end grain and edge grain but it is more likely to fail. It may take a long time and go out of style before it fails but it is more likely to fail.

[Mike Mason]

how do you think this was done - or at least should have been done?

the border pieces appear glued, as tight as they look. but that would mean (assuming 1/16" and 3/4" substrate) glueing the border to 3/4" of mdf and the 1/16" of walnut/oak thickness. is the bond of border to that 3/4" of mdf strong enough to keep the wood from moving? it almost seems we come back to where we started, the border is going to want to move but the substrate wont let it so something will have to give. yet i have seen several videos where the guys just glue the border straight to solid wood like i did before. of course just making a video doesnt mean your are an expert. plus i have seen plenty of boards for sale and in person where there is a solid wood border clearly attached with adhesive yet i know it is a veneer board over a substrate similar to this.


Image2.jpg

Again, look at your previous post where your specific questions are already answered.

[Charlie Fox]

Again, look at your previous post where your specific questions are already answered.

man i apologize - i must be the biggest a-hole you guys have ever encountered on here.

but really - please show me the post, anyway you look at it i am still glueing crossgrain OR gluing a wood that will move to a substrate that will not move. how hard is that to understand?

has anyone here actually made a chessboard? i have made dozens of cutting boards - end grain etc -

[John Kananis]

Chess boards are one of the first projects folks get into when starting to veneer. It really builds skill as there's many cuts and pieces and you get a nice keepsake that really doesn't take forever to make. The pic you posted looks like a veneered board, boarder and all.

Edit: Veneering isn't just a way to prevent cracking, it's a responsible way to use material, especially the exotics and burls.

Edit 2: next get yourself a lathe and start making pieces lol

[Michael Burnside]

man i apologize - i must be the biggest a-hole you guys have ever encountered on here.

but really - please show me the post, anyway you look at it i am still glueing crossgrain OR gluing a wood that will move to a substrate that will not move. how hard is that to understand?

has anyone here actually made a chessboard? i have made dozens of cutting boards - end grain etc -

Stop taking it personal. You're not an a-hole and how you read a post might not be exactly how someone intends it to be heard.

If you want to be 100% sure wood movement isn't going to be an issue, then you're going to need to rabbet the miters with a relief that will let the board float inside, gluing only the first few squares. If I were making it for myself or as a gift, I'd just glue the whole damn thing to the substrate but I'd make sure the "board" was pretty thin, miter the edges and add splines to the miters with contrasting wood for strengthening them.

Now, maybe I'll get 10 people telling me gluing the whole thing is a bad idea and they're God's gift to woodworking or have 10000000 years of experience and not doing what they say is a sin. Well, what would a forum be without know-it-alls?

[Charlie Fox]

If you want to be 100% sure wood movement isn't going to be an issue, then you're going to need to rabbet the miters with a relief that will let the board float inside, gluing only the first few squares. If I were making it for myself or as a gift, I'd just glue the whole damn thing to the substrate but I'd make sure the "board" was pretty thin, miter the edges and add splines to the miters with contrasting wood for strengthening them.

been googling and not totally sure on this concept. so if it is floating inside, then it wont have a tight fit like as in glueing, so there would be a gap. all i see is tight fitting frames when i search, totally glued. if you come across an example please share if you dont mind.

as far as "Now, maybe I'll get 10 people telling me gluing the whole thing is a bad idea ?" - pretty sure thats what has been recommended, dont see an issue here

so i glued one up, worked like a charm. i am at 3/32". didnt want to plane any further because a piece or two chipped off on the end, and i am a little worried about how well this will cut on the table saw being so thin. i'll try it out later. at least i have a brand new Forrest on it.

IMG_6661.jpgIMG_6662.jpg

[Charlie Fox]

ahhhhhh - just found this. easier to visualize how to build the frame now. of course this isnt veneer but i can go with the general concept.

https://www.reddit.com/r/woodworking...m_source=share

[Charlie Fox]

and another question at the risk of it being really dumb - woulkd it make sense to put 2 or 3 coats of poly on the bottom of the veneer before glueing to the substrate? that way the veneer would have equal finish as well. then of course i would apply an equal amount on the top when built as well as the bottom of the substrate.

my local hardwood dealer has 1" mdf. overkill? or go for it?

[John Kananis]

No, definitelydon't do that.

and another question at the risk of it being really dumb - woulkd it make sense to put 2 or 3 coats of poly on the bottom of the veneer before glueing to the substrate? that way the veneer would have equal finish as well. then of course i would apply an equal amount on the top when built as well as the bottom of the substrate.

my local hardwood dealer has 1" mdf. overkill? or go for it?