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You have here folks who are problem solvers and then the others. If not solar, wind, natural gas powered generator or what ever. I put in a small solar array after we went 4 days without power a few years ago. Darn batteries were the most expensive part!
Retired Guy- Central Iowa.HVAC/R , Cloudray Galvo Fiber , -Windows 10
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I think you nailed it here, Roger. If you can affor a new vehicle, then the ownership and per mile cost of an EV is going to beat that of a comparable ICE vehicle, particularly if you're someone who doesn't trade up just for the sake of getting a new car every year or two.
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Interesting experience here for one person.
https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2...ate-13-towing/
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That report is the second main reason I ended up buying a Tesla in May. Perfect illustration of infrastructure that is installed, but not maintained. Isn't Electrify America the system the Feds forced VW to install as a Billion$ penalty for their cheating on diesel emissions? If so, maybe no one thought about the maintenance issue.
Tesla's charger system (Superchargers by name) is mostly maintained pretty well and always growing. The car also can plan your route on a long trip, showing where to stop to charge before you even leave. On the way you can have it tell you how many 'pumps' at the station you are stopping at, and it will also tell you the capacity (speed) at which it will charge, as well as how many are in operation or out of service before you arrive. It also charges your credit card automatically through the app, without having to have a special app or card for each companies system.
This is why most manufacturers are going to the Tesla charging standard. Elon pulled that coup out of his hat while no one was paying attention. Manufacturers are signing up fast, because the other charging systems make their cars look inferior.
PS: If you are wondering, the first reason was that my model Y dropped over 16K in price from January to May this year. The third reason that put me over the edge was when Tesla opened a sales/service center within a couple miles of me.
I had two plug in hybrids for the last 10 years, and had already decided this one was gonna be full electric as my solar panels will make my normal driving free of fuel costs, except for the occasional longer trip when I have to use the superchargers.
PPS: The daughter came in and told us today that she saw a Shell station with gas over $6 a gallon. Daughter in law filled up today at the cheap place for $5.38 for reg. Yup, California. She lives in Texas and said it was $3.29 there when she left last week.
Rick Potter
DIY journeyman,
FWW wannabe.
AKA Village Idiot.
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Where I live both gas and electricity are expensive. We have a 12.3 kW solar array and just got a (non Tesla) EV. The car charges at home for free since we were exporting twice that much power anyway for a pittance, and the charger was included with the car.
Between tax benefits and not spending $600/month for fuel the car will actually pay for itself over nine years.
Interestingly, some state governments here are discussing a road user tax because they can see their fuel tax revenues about to start shrinking.
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Yeah, it's a bit of a double edged sword. Governments need to encourage the switch to EVs while at the same time figure out how to switch away from funding road maintenance using fuel tax revenues.Originally Posted by Greg Quenneville
Here in BC you need to report your odometer reading when you renew your insurance and license plate. You get a discount on your insurance if you drive less than 5,000 Km/year (3,100 m/year). Wouldn't be hard to apply a fee for EVs based on total kilometers driven, perhaps factor in the registered gross vehicle weight.
Last edited by Doug Garson; 09-23-2023 at 12:23 AM.
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A road use fee, based ion milage abd scaled to vehicle weight/size and attendant road wear, makes total sense as a replacement for the gas taxes. Perhaps some of the states that that have seemingly opted out of road maintenance (PA, I'm looking at you) could catch up on their repairs.
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We were always told that the fuel taxes maintain the road infrastructure but it all likely goes into a big pot so who knows where that tax ends up; not that it probably matters much in reality. Having EVs pay for road infrastructure use makes perfect sense to me.
The other thing I'm concerned about is the amount of money that will need to be put into the electrical infrastructure to support large-scale adoption of EVs. At my age, and the age of my current ICE vehicle an EV is very unlikely in my future. I have absolutely no desire to pay higher residential electric rates for infrastructure capacity so some EV owner can tell me how cheap it is to run their EV.
Contributor
The switch to EVs isn't the only thing increasing demand on the grid. Here's a couple of quotes from a Financial Times article
"The estimated cost to repair the “infrastructure gap” ranges from $150 billion to $1 trillion, depending on what changes are made, according to the IISD.“The numbers are quite crazy,” said Darren Swanson, an associate at IISD in Winnipeg. “It just highlights the fact that there will be investment needed and that climate change is wreaking havoc on infrastructure itself, so the timing is quite urgent in terms of building resiliency.”
"The report lays out in detail some of the ways that climate change is already damaging infrastructure, such as when forest fires destroy transmission lines, or cause overheating in data centres, or when extreme precipitation causes flooding that buries substations and transmission lines.
The effect of such heat on the electrical grid draws less attention than coal exports or forest fires, but may be more consequential especially as Canada revamps its power generation in an effort to decarbonize the economy."
https://financialpost.com/commoditie...ntense-weather
Contributor
Just saw this on the local news
TEMPE, AZ (3TV/CBS 5) — There aren’t enough public charging stations for the number of electric vehicles on the road....
According to the Alliance for Automotive Innovation, there’s only one publicly available charger for every 26 electric vehicles.
And while EV sales jumped 57% in the first half of 2023, the number of public chargers only increased 11%. Power and parking availability are challenges.
So will I be getting an EV any time soon? Ummmm.... no.
EV charging stations in AZ.jpg
Last edited by Patty Hann; 10-12-2023 at 8:02 AM.
"What you see and what you hear depends a great deal on where you are standing.
It also depends on what sort of person you are.”
Contributor
Yet more hyperbolic reporting from the anti-EV collaborative. Public chargers are used for well less than 20% of all charging, and a typical charge takes about 20 minutes, so one charger for every 26 cars sounds like plenty. In the real world of driving an electric I had to wait 3 minutes for a charger spot once in 15,000 miles of driving, using public chargers about 50% of the time. During the same time I've waited far longer for an open pump at the gas station when driving my truck.
Contributor
Maybe where you live everyone has a charger in their garage...but not where I live.*** I have a 150A panel.
How 'bout that long drive [east] to Showlow through high country to go skiing at Sunrise?
Not too many chargers...and 6000 feet in winter is kind of chilly with no working car heater... or car.
*** From Motortrend Mag:
How Much Does It Cost to Install a Home EV Charger?
Most American homeowners will spend around $1,150 to $2,750 to purchase and install a 240-volt charging station. A good home charger costs $350 to $750 or so, while the typical installation runs between $800 and $2,000 according to Qmerit, a nationwide specialist in installing EV charging equipment. The price charged by an electrician for this work varies largely based on four factors: the cost of labor where you live, the power of the charger, the distance between the electrical panel and the charging station, and the complexity of the job. This installation estimate also includes the price of permits.
Home homeowners may be shocked to get a quote above $5,000, or in extreme cases $10,000. ... An older home may have an outdated electrical panel, or the panel simply may not have room for a new 240-volt circuit. Upgrading to a larger breaker panel typically adds a couple thousand dollars to the job. Things get really expensive if the service wires feeding electricity to the house can't deliver enough amperage to accommodate a charger on top of your existing electrical load—especially if the lines are buried underground. Replacing these wires means getting your local utility involved, which also may stretch the project timeline by several months.
Last edited by Patty Hann; 10-12-2023 at 8:37 AM.
"What you see and what you hear depends a great deal on where you are standing.
It also depends on what sort of person you are.”
Contributor
According to a report from the U.S. Department of Energy, the ideal ratio of EVs to charging stations is 40 Level 2 charging ports and 3.4 DC fast chargers (DCFC) per 1,000 EVs. (A DCFC charger usually has 3 ports.)
Currently, there are 41 Level 2 charging ports and 5.7 DCFC charging ports per 1,000 EVs, respectively, or about 21 EVs for every charging port.
Conversely, there are 2,514 internal combustion engine (ICE) cars per gas station.
The study also notes which states are best when it comes to the ratio of charging stalls to EVs. North Dakota, Wyoming and West Virginia are the three states where you are most likely to find an empty charging stall, while the worst are New Jersey, Hawaii and Arizona. In the last three there is a higher chance that you may find all local public chargers are taken and you may have to wait or find a way to charge the EV at home.
The charging station infrastructure in the United States will catch up to and surpass traditional fuel stations for the number of individual pumps, or charging stalls if the Biden administration's plans to add 500,000 of them by 2030 is fulfilled. There are currently between 110,000 - 150,000 fuel stations (each with multiple individual pumps) and the number of EV charging outlets is around 110,000.
https://insideevs.com/news/567694/ch...stations-soon/
Contributor
I do not have a "charger" in my garage, per se - I have a 240V outlet I plug into. I could also plug into a regular 120V outlet. I also have a 150A panel for the whole house - no issue.
Looks like there's a Supercharger in Payson. Assuming you're in Phoenix, would be no hassle at all.
It's a standard 240V outlet. This is like telling someone considering acquiring a 3HP table saw, "Watch out - you might have to spend $10k having your utility company replace your buried service wiring!".
Contributor
Seems like some people forget why the switch to EVs is encouraged. Here's a few reasons
"Phoenix set a new heat record on Saturday, reaching 54 days of 110 degrees or higher in 2023. This breaks the 53-day record that was set in 2020."
Public health officials in Maricopa County, Arizona's most populous county and home to Phoenix, said this week that 202 heat-associated deaths had been confirmed for 2023 as of Sept. 9; far more than the 175 confirmed by the same time last year. Another 356 deaths this year are being investigated for heat causes.
"But it can easily get much hotter. Arizona was the third-fastest-warming state in the US between 1970 and 2018, according to a Climate Central study. And a recent ProPublica study suggested the Phoenix region will be among the country's least-habitable by 2050, with half the year spent at temperatures above 95F.",
"By 2050, people in Phoenix are projected to experience an average of about 44 days per year over 109.9ºF. Climate change is increasing the frequency and intensity of heat waves, even in places with cooler average temperatures.
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