Agreed. I was hit with this during my shop's construction that isn't slab on grade.Originally Posted by Rollie Meyers
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Agreed. I was hit with this during my shop's construction that isn't slab on grade.
Moderator
And for that reason, it's important to ask the local jurisdiction up front which iteration of the NEC their process follows. It's going to affect design and cost. Mine fortunately was still using the 2014 version when my shop went up and still is, AFAIK.
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The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...
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I love shop build threads! Lots of great suggestions, I wanted to add a little about radiant floors.
My shop is 30x36, insulated concrete slab, insulated concrete stem walls, 2x6 stick framed with spray foam insulation. The radiant system ran about $3500 including all the pex. In the coldest part of the winter I’m spending $100-$150 on electric.
I still have hopes to install solar panels to offset this cost but the ROI isn’t there yet.
And go with at least 10’ ceilings. And plan windows carefully. I put a row of windows at the top of the ceiling facing east and they let in too much light, it’s blinding some days.
Contributor
Mmmm…
I posted this question in the Mike Holt forum a year and a half ago wrt the 2020 edition. The unanimous opinion was no gfci required in accessory buildings with floor above grade level. There was some discussion of the definition of “grade level” wrt slabs, but no debate on raised wood. My inspector confirmed this interpretation for our locale.
As Jim said, confirm with your local ahj, but the code is clear; gfci is required if the floor is at or below grade level. If you are dinged for this, you should have a very good chance of gaining satisfaction on appeal.
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Last edited by Charlie Velasquez; 10-15-2023 at 9:35 PM.
Comments made here are my own and, according to my children, do not reflect the opinions of any other person... anywhere, anytime.
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I was energy manager for our school district. We wanted the teachers to use natural light as much as possible so they could turn off a bank or two of the overhead light fixtures. In classrooms with east and south facing windows the glare was, as you say, too much (even the west windows had a glare problem in the winter time when the sun was getting low enough before school dismissal).
Our solution was to replace the pull down shades with white or highly reflective blinds. By rotating the slats so the interior edge was higher than the exterior edge they could block all direct sunlight from getting in but get about 60% of the reflected light (if your ceiling is not white, a quick coat of white paint makes quite a difference).
They also make films that can be applied to the interior glass.
Comments made here are my own and, according to my children, do not reflect the opinions of any other person... anywhere, anytime.
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According to Mike Holt, PA is on the 2017 NEC.
https://www.mikeholt.com/technical-nec-menu.php
Moderator
I know for a fact that my local jurisdiction is using the 2017 version, but I was unaware of any state-wide requirement. While I'm on the local Planning Commission, we don't go that deep on stuff; if I was on the Zoning Board, I suspect I'd be more up on that!
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The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...
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I have a 22 x 28 shop with a gambrel roof. Upstairs is not heated, but incredibly useful as a storage space. All the longer lumber is up there, along with rarely used tools, e.g. the power planer, conduit bender, electrical supplies, etc. This is the single most important feature that I would duplicate if building again.
This was a very 'conventional' build, because I was planning it to be a garage, so some other things were luck or later adds.
1. One critically useful thing was one row of 8" block on the concrete floor, then standard walls. I did it to keep the wood walls above the exterior grass, but it made all the difference for a workshop. Taller would be nicer, but I can set plywood on edge for storage.
2. There is one extra strong joist 8' inside the door (I thought I might pull a car engine again one day, but that never happened). I have 'I' joists in for the shop ceiling/floor of upstairs, I doubled one with a 2x.. in the center as a sandwich, and it holds a mounting point for my overhead chain hoist. I can back in a trailer, winch up, drive away. (26" Moak bandsaw, 1100lbs, Felder saw/shaper is heavier yet, etc.)
3. I ran 100 amp service when builiding it, just because one never knows, and installed lots of outlets.
4. I later added a layer of 3/4 fomular 250 insulation with 3/4 OSB atop it over the slab. (Thicker would mean resetting the doors). No joists, and no troubles with the machines crushing it.
5. I ended up removing the garage doors, filling in one of the two bays as a wall and made carriage doors for the other. It seals better and keeps the shop much warmer and my feet happier. (I'm in southern Minnesota).
Terry T.
Last edited by Terry Therneau; 10-22-2023 at 7:24 PM. Reason: clarify one sentence
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I'm on the local board of zoning appeals. We don't delve into building requirements, that's for the building department, which approves and inspects plans. Rather we discuss _what_ can be built, rather than _how_. So "Can I build a garage?" Rather than "What are my wiring requirements".
Moderator
In PA, the Zoning Commission is similar, and you are correct that that entity doesn't get into the weeds. I should have said the Zoning Officer who is also chief-in-charge of the Building Code enforcement (and the Fire Marshal) in our particular jurisdiction. He and his co-code officer are actually employees of a large engineering firm that provides these functions to multiple jurisdictions under contract as that's a lot more cost effective, especially for smaller jurisdictions. Good people, too. They have been a pleasure to work with for the three projects I've done so far at this property since moving here two and a half years ago.
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The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...
Contributor
Carriage doors are on my list. I was working on the shop last night with the heat running and it was at least 5 degrees colder by the overhead door.
Member
I moved from a house with a ten foot garage shop to one that was only nine feet high. That foot makes a huge difference. Hanging racks provide some good storage too.
Contributor
Sourcing these functions from an engineering firm makes a lot of sense, especially if the firm provides these services to multiple jurisdictions. They should be able to provide a deeper bench, internal oversight and internal resources. They should be more resistant to politics, and the consistency across jurisdictions would benefit tradesmen.
Moderator
Those are certainly benefits,, Tom, but the number one reason that small jurisdictions contract with these specialized engineering firms for zoning and building is...cost. Budgets are tight and supporting salaries and benefits for captive resources is cost prohibitive. The engineering firms use the same resources across multiple juridictions which is more cost effective and it also results in more consistent delivery of the services and as you note, a more fair environment for both property owners and contractors, etc.
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The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...
Member
My 2 story shop 30x42, has 10 ‘ ceilings on the first floor and 12’ ceiling on second floor. Insulated concrete floors with heavy polyurethane underneath, pt sleepers in the floor, advantek subfloor and hardwood floor. 8” walls insulated, ac and high efficiency gas boiler with cast iron radiators. 200 amp single phase with 40 hp rpc. Very comfortable
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