Slider question

[Greg Quenneville]

I will echo the advice to upsize the slider to 10’ if you can. I have two Felder combos…one with the short slider and one with the 78”. The smaller machine is great for working with solid wood, and the larger machine is just too small to work with sheet goods without some compromise.

That said, if space is a concern then get the largest slider you can and be happy. If you aren’t going to making a lot of kitchens all of a sudden then you will have few frustrations and much more capability than a cabinet saw. Get an outrigger, even if only for resale value. Although you will likely end up using it all the time.

Greg

[Mick Simon]

I don't regret getting the longest slider that would fit in my shop. It took 39 iterations of floor layouts in CAD to make it happen, but zero regrets.

As others have said, I work primarily in solid wood and the occasional panel is almost always broken down with my track saw. My reason for wanting the longer slider is for straight line ripping, which is, IMO, the real game-changer for sliders. I've made a few 84+" solid wood tables using the slider to straight-line the edges for glueing. Perfect glue edges from the saw. I almost never have the carriage installed - it rests behind my A3-41.

I also second Jim's recommendation of having a separate router table rather than relying solely on the router spindle attachment for the shaper. Rotation speeds are much lower on shapers.

[Aaron Inami]

Another thing to consider is adding the scoring blade option. If you are doing any plywood or melamine material, you can have chip-out on the bottom of the ply with a single table saw blade:

chipout_1.jpgchipout_2.jpg

These are example of extreme cases, but you can have chipout on a variety of different plywood or melamine stock.

[Carl Beckett]

I have a CU300 combo after decades with separates. My comments:

Definitely prefer the slider over the cabinet saw. And, it is 'safer'. Combination of convenience and safety - especially with a FF jig - would not go back unless I am forced to. Getting the fence out of the way is considerably safer, as is having the workpiece held better. I break down sheets before they go on the saw (usually). It does have a scoring blade which I do not use much at all. A good sharp blade is all I need. trimming the end (even miter) on a relatively longer piece is doable since it is held securely - which means I do not use a miter saw again saving space.

It is a 'short slider'. I do not need a longer one. Remember, you can always hand feed pushing the material through like any other table saw.

The combo machine does save space. However, I find changeover on the jointer/planer inconvenient. Having it in planer mode limits table size for the TS - and I go back and forth. If I had the space, I would go with the separate J/P combo located with more room to utilize. This may be a non issue for you but mentioning it.

I have a separate router table. I do occasionally use the shaper, but it requires more setup and is more suited for larger cuts than the router table. I still get a lot of use from the router table. Additionally, budget a feeder for the shaper (and consider how you might mount it to clear everything - taking it on/off is another changeover). Consider spindle size - mine is only 1 1/4" which means more expensive tooling. Start with a rabbet, groover, and a profile set (what I randomly started out with but has turned out to be a good range of capability)

Dust collection on this machine is 'average'. I do have an overhead collection/guard on the TS - this is worthwhile and factor into the system.

Not the same as you are looking at, but some similar functionality.

Good luck!

[Mike Stelts]

After Jim Becker showed me the advantage of sliders, I found a used B3, later sold it and bought a new KF700S. Of the added options, those I found most useful were: widest outrigger, longest slider, electronic height & tilt. I found cutting sheet goods to be easy and accurate: a track saw isn't necessary. The electronic height & tilt let me easily repeat saw and shaper setups weeks later. The slider is not just for long stock, it also lets me have a couple setups on the saw at the same time. I also have the scoring blade; but, I haven't done work that necessitates it yet. Cabinet work is scheduled later, and I'll bet this will be added to the list of useful features then.

[Nick Crivello]

I have a 20x20 shop (my garage) and an older K700S pro with 10' slider. It's situated against the wall and facing out the garage door. The 16" Porter jointer is nested up against the wall just behind the saw and co-planer, such that the saw is effectively the outfeed for the jointer.

I use the short fence most of the time but the outrigger is close by on the mobile carriage. Its about a 2 minute process to attach/detach when needed. The short fence can be configured in a forward or aft position on the slider to facilitate use in a sort of 'short stroke' configuration when the door is closed.

The sliders are big but they're flexible enough for use in smaller spaces imo. Traditional cabinet saws still require the same infeed/outfeed space anyhow.

[Warren Lake]

I put the slider bar behind the radial table and on to the jointer so the radial table and the jointer are the extension table for the slider. still needs some tweaking but compresses stuff big time.

[Mike Wilkins]

Another slider user here (Laguna) and would highly recommend adding one to your arsenal. I also have a standard cabinet saw but seriously considering selling to free up some space. I also think a slider is a safer machine since your digits are far from the cutting action.
When placing your order from Hammer/Felder, research their website for any options/accessories you may be interested in, as the lead time is months, not weeks. I ordered some components for my Hammer F3 shaper the last week in January; they arrived in mid September.

[Todd Zucker]

Warren, do you have a photo of your configuration with the jointer and radial table?

[Nick Crivello]

I put the slider bar behind the radial table and on to the jointer so the radial table and the jointer are the extension table for the slider. still needs some tweaking but compresses stuff big time.

I'm not quite understanding what you're saying here.

[Warren Lake]

at the moment im in the middle of stuff pulled apart and more cabinets going up onto the wall for the stuff. TV and saw blades sitting on stuff and doing five other things that have to be done, Here is a chicken scratch sketch to show what is done till I take a photo.

Im putting together a third machine room temp for now. this is the right side. Normally I would run a right hand support table on the slider to the right of the blade and that would be between workbench here and the right hand side of the radial arm. In this case im limited to 23 feet approx and this position and how its laid out now works Its different as there is not righ support table on the slider. I cant fit it in as Id need 27 or 28 feet of length so just put the bar in and will make a support for the bar or it can attach to the radial saw. The coloured in part is the bar for the slider rip fence.

The thing marked A is a piece of wood for the table saw rip fence to slide on when it is past the table, then travels onto the radial arm table. Likely have over 50" of rip capacity forgotten might be more. the workbench in this case is not one of the Umias but a past work bench with Record vises and gets used for some car repair stuff as well. I try to work on it daily but have other stuff on the go. If I had the length on that wall then there would be the right hand support table on the slider since not enough length there this was the solution. That is not having the right side support table on the slider you would normally have.

The work bench provides support for long boards on the radial on the right, the jointer support on the left. The radial and work bench provide infeed support for the jointer and the outfeed end of the jointer there is a door that opens. There is a door before the work bench that opens. I can do material up to 16 foot solid and have support either side.

If you want to envision how I normally do this imagine the radial arm shown there being the side support table for the saw then just slide the radial and jointer up. Just could not do that i this case. The other way saves good space, this more.

I tried to edit to ad temp infeed support id use on 4 x 8 or long material and cant get rid of the original photo


img824.jpg

[Rod Sheridan]

I’m on year 13 of my Hammer B3 Winner with the 4 foot capacity crosscut sliding table.

I mostly build solid wood furniture with the occasional kitchen cabinet style cabinets.

The mid length slider is perfect for me, I use the shaper a lot, really handy to have a shaper with a sliding table, tilting spindle.

I suggest you purchase both the 1 1/4” and 30mm diameter spindles so you can share blades and grooving tooling between saw and shaper.

Or if you have no 1 1/4” tooling, just a 30mm spindle.

If you buy a machine and want shaper training by video, PM me.."…..Regards, Rod

[Todd Zucker]

I see both sides of the length/cost-benefit/space argument for the longest possible sliding table but keep leaning towards Derek, Rod and Jim in terms of the short slider as adequate for building solid wood furniture in the garage.

My garage is small, and the furniture I build is modest. A 48" chest of drawers would be about the max. The top of a 60" sideboard would probably be cut with a track saw and edged by hand.

For me, I have been using the Festool MFT (or band saw or hand saw) in lieu of a table saw for at least a decade. I had not considered the table saw (slider or otherwise) as a replacement for the MFT. The MFT cart has a 31" x 46" footprint with some fences and rails that stick out a few inches further. It is kind of big for a small garage. Maybe it should be returned to a temporary work surface that I can fold up and put in a closet and replace it with a table saw as the center of the work area.

If a 48" x 48" K3 slider could completely or almost completely replace the MFT cart for everyday use, it might be the right solution for functionality and space savings. The slider would be the center of the garage, the MFT could become a temporary table as it was originally envisioned, and the track saw with the 4 foot or 9 foot track could handle almost anything else I would come across.

Jim B also indicated that he uses the slider instead of the miter saw in many instances. Maybe the Kapex could be moved to a less "prime" area of the garage.

[Jim Becker]

Todd, I think that you'll find that the MFT will still be a part of your workflow regardless of slider size, both because you are used to it, and because having that track makes for some easy operations that might be more cumbersome on the slider, even though it's a slider. Example...routing dados/grooves across narrow workpieces that have some length to them. I don't use my MFT very often, but I'm glad I have it. I actually did try to use it as my "primary" saw solution in the temporary gara-shop while waiting for my new shop to be built and it didn't cut it, pardon the expression. Some of that was just my own work habits and some of it was because it was difficult to work with very small workpieces. I ended up getting a cut down cabinet saw to use until I could get back to a slider in the new shop.

[Erik Loza]

…If a 48" x 48" K3 slider could completely or almost completely replace the MFT cart for everyday use… Jim B also indicated that he uses the slider instead of the miter saw in many instances…

Todd, maybe this was already mentioned but by the time you add any sort of fence to a 48” slider or any clamps or other accessories, the usable stroke on that table gets shorter in a hurry. Just be aware that with that length slider, your effective ripping stroke will be around 36” when it’s all said and done. Again, maybe you’ve already factored this in.

I would suggest getting pricing on two configurations of K3 or B3 from your Felder rep. One, the 48x48 (configured as you wish, but WITH outrigger and mobility kit; the outrigger is mandatory any time we are talking about using a slider as a mitre saw or as workpiece support, like your MFT table). The other option, a K3 or B3 Comfort, which will have both an outrigger and mobility, as well as scoring and the heavy-duty rip fence guidebar. I have a pretty good idea what the price difference would be but wonder if you have actually done the numbers?

Erik