I have the Whiteside bit as well as the 1-1/2 top-bearing version. They're all I need, but like Jim said, there could be need for something a bit longer.Originally Posted by Tom Levy
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I have the Whiteside bit as well as the 1-1/2 top-bearing version. They're all I need, but like Jim said, there could be need for something a bit longer.
[OP]
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I'm flush trimming some 2" stock. but TBH, this thing really is a beast. I've got a beefy router in the table (this is CLEARLY not for hand held) but I might just send it back it's so massive. I could to a couple passed with a shorter one. But we'll see. I like the whiteside one but haven't pulled the trigger. I did like the replaceable carbides which is why I bought it.
"The element of competition has never worried me, because from the start, I suppose I realized wood contains so much inspiration and beauty and rhythm that if used properly it would result in an individual and unique object." - James Krenov
What you do speaks so loud, I cannot hear what you say. -R. W. Emerson
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I just saw this thread/link and now I want one! Since it's a helical head flush-trim bit, it will do much better on figured hard-woods (which we all know have a tendency for chip-out using straight knives).
That being said, I don't think this really scary looking bit is any more dangerous than some of the other large router bits on the market:
https://bitsbits.com/product/2505/
https://bitsbits.com/product/2012/
https://bitsbits.com/product/whitesi...ve-router-bit/
https://bitsbits.com/product/6002-ogee/
It still needs to be handled with much care. I think it has less risk of kick-back than a straight knife flush trim bit, since you only have a small edge cutting at a time.
I watched the referenced video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G21hkHI2hsU
Like I said, this bit would really be good for figured hard-woods, but I can see cut lines in the video from where the individual carbide bits are mounted maybe a thousands of an inch off. You would still need to sand the edge to get rid of those cut lines.
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That seems like a lot of bit for a 1/2” shank and router. I have a 4” tall x 4” diameter x 1 1/4” bore helical carbide head + matching OD bearing for my shaper that handle flush trimming extremely well. What router are you running with this bit?
Here are a few photos. This is an older setup/photo and I now have a hood with adjustable height front guards that cover more of the cutterhead, fwiw…or, of course run it with the bearing on top and most of the cutterhead buried below the table if the template design allows.
Still waters run deep.
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Well, anything can happen on Google. I follow a rule of thumb not to run router bits with a length more than 4x the diameter, but that is subject to common sense.
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I have on similar to that. I have used it to round corners. I take off all the wood just shy of the line. I does a great job. I, too, had a big pucker factor the first time I used it. I have only, so fa, used it on a router table.
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I occasionally make patterns on my CNC router and needed a bit like that to use them. I ended up getting an inexpensive shaper and using a 4" diameter insert bit from Grizzly. I paired it with a rub bearing. I just didn't like the 1/2" shank on the router versions.
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For me, router bits run too fast on routers. Have you see how fast a CNC router moves (feed rate) at the same RPMs as your router with the same bits you use on your router table? I have the big Whiteside double sided router bit (pretty sure that's the brand) that I'd be willing to part with it since my shaper is up and running. I think router tables are more dangerous compared to my MAN rated shaper tools I've used so far.
I'm guessing it has something to do with maximizing HP and torque / size of router / size of bit, but router bits spin way too fast IMO. Whenever I read about people using metal knee mills or shapers with router bits they all say how nicely the router bit cuts (much lower RPM). Of course, those are potentially much higher HP machines. But given how fast CNC's feed stock vs how fast a human feeds stock safely, reducing the RPM seems appropriate. But, again, I must be missing something because super high RPM's on a router have been the solution for a very very long time. I'm just not into it after experiencing shapers.
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You’re not wrong Andrew but there is a reason table routers have a speed adjustment. I always adjust my router based on the size of the bit being used.
Also, most people run their CNCs at too high of an RPM and low chip loads. But don’t get me started on the hordes of clueless YouTubers trying to explain feeds and speeds.
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Ummm ... yeah ...
Looks like way too much of that hanging out of the collet. In a milling machine you could probably get all the up to the flutes. A 'router', not so much.
As for the insert tool, maybe a bit much for my 1617, unless all I needed was the bottom bearing and a reasonable thickness of stock.
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It's the rigidity, not the HP.
And, I *think* the RPM of the router does 2 things. It's 'free' HP *, and the high RPM probably helps to prevent snagging and kickback.
* Universal motors vs synchronous.
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It looks like a nice bit. Yeah, it's a bit larger than normal, but set to the lowest speed on the router, with some precautions taken, it shouldn't be an issue. It's not made to "hog" wood, it's made to use on a piece of material, bandsaw close to the line, and finish with that bit.
I would worry more about a larger diameter cabinet set in a router, than that bit. The centrifugal force is a lot lower on that bit, than some of the panel raiser sets I've seen for routers.
The bigger issue, in my mind, is the size of the router used. That's going to take a little beef.
"The first thing you need to know, will likely be the last thing you learn." (Unknown)
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Andrew
I have to agree with you. I would much rather use my shaper with a router bit, than a router in a table.
I've run some really small router bits at 10,000 rpm, and they work just fine.
I have a 240vac, 3HP shaper, and a "green" router advertised at 3HP with a 15amp, 120vac plug. Sorry, there are no 3HP motors running on 120vac, 15 amp, 16AWG cords, continuously.
"The first thing you need to know, will likely be the last thing you learn." (Unknown)
Yeah, I think it has more to do with eeking out every possible unit of power from 110 V and < 15 amps of current (with ~65% efficient single phase motors via quick Google search). I don't remember seeing any high amperage 110v, 220v single phase, or 3 phase routers.. so it seems to me once you have the capacity for power, you're able to lower the RPM's.
Last edited by andrew whicker; 10-09-2023 at 9:04 AM.
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I would add a top bearing mount arm to the router table. Like an outboard arbor overarm on a metal horizontal milling machine. Heck a used horizontal mill would work fine to run that bit.
Bill D
Last edited by Bill Dufour; 10-09-2023 at 11:45 PM.
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