Help Deciding on Sliding Table Saw

[Josh Baldwin]

Hey everyone so I've seen posts about this, but most of them are 5 years+ old. I'm just wondering if anyone has an opinion on the best sliding table saw for about $10k.

I'm leaning towards the Felder K500s, but also considering the Minimax SC4E. I will mostly be using the saw for solid lumber and occasionally sheet goods. I build custom furniture, usually 1 piece per month on commission. I'm excited about straight line ripping and then using parallel guides to get perfect rips and of course all of the amazing cross cut capabilities of the slider.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I've been speaking with reps from both companies and the prices are super similar so far.

[Paul J Kelly]

Josh,

I love my Felder slider. I would keep my eyes out for a late model used one also. Do you have access to 3 phase power? If so, that may open up for better values on the used market.

I found my five year old kappa 400 x-motion that was in near new condition for 1/3 of the new price. Used machine prices seem to be getting more reasonable.

Either way, I think the sliders are what felder does best.

PK

[Josh Baldwin]

Josh,

I love my Felder slider. I would keep my eyes out for a late model used one also. Do you have access to 3 phase power? If so, that may open up for better values on the used market.

I found my five year old kappa 400 x-motion that was in near new condition for 1/3 of the new price. Used machine prices seem to be getting more reasonable.

Either way, I think the sliders are what felder does best.

PK

Hey Paul thanks for the info. Single phase power is all I have unfortunately. Great to hear about your Felder. I have a hammer jointer/planer that has been mostly great, although the calibration was ridiculous. But of course I'm assuming Felder is much higher quality than Hammer.

[Aaron Inami]

I have operated both Felder and Minimax sliding table saws at this level. Between the K500S and the SC4E, I think it's somewhat of a wash. That being said, there are some differences to be aware of.

Minimax SC4E points
- Minimax comes stock with a scoring motor and it runs all the time with the main motor.
- single phase 4.8HP main motor is a little more powerful than the Felder 4HP single phase
- Has an American standard 5/8" size for saw arbor which means you have an extremely large selection of blades to choose from.
- Uses the standard 3/4" t-slot in the slider, which means you can just plop in a normal Incra miter gauge or some other gauge/jig/clamp.
- A very nice DRO kit is available for the crosscut fence at a reasonable price: https://www.proscale.com/products/in.../907-3037-001/

Felder K500S points
- Felder does have an option for a separate scoring motor, which I highly recommend, but it does cost extra. It has it's own power switch so it can be off. I would highly recommend you get a scoring motor regardless.
- Felder uses a non-standard t-slot. My Felder K700S t-slot is 0.82" which means it's useless except for Felder clamps/jigs (and they are extremely expensive!).
- It uses the Euro sized 30mm saw arbor with two pins, which means you need special saw blades (they are available but not as widespread). I would recommend the Tenryu blades here as they are excellent.
- The overhead saw guard option on the Felder is awsome, but very expensive (I think it's an $1100 option).
- To me, I think the Felder X-roll table works and feels just a little bit better, but this is probably a small thing.
- No DRO options for the crosscut fence unless you fabricate your own (which can be challenging if you don't have metal working fabrication experience).

If I were to have to choose between those two options, I would probably choose the Minimax just because of the crosscut fence DRO kit. I have found that you be off by up to 1/16" when using a non-DRO flipstop. Actually, many of my cuts are off by 1/32" because you need to be directly above the hairline indicator when setting the fence and it's pretty much impossible to do this. If this doesn't bug you, then fine, but I think a crosscut DRO is a mandatory item.

If you could find a used Felder K700S that not more than 5-6 years in good condition, I would seriously consider that. The K700S line is a significant step up and improvement, but everything is also more expensive at this level, so be aware. With the K700S, you have a much better crosscut fence and overall machine. Some of these K700S will include the Felder crosscut DRO. However, if the fence has a non-DRO flipstop, you can get the Lamb Toolworks DRO flipstop for around $1500-1600 (depending).

[Richard Coers]

I had a Griggio when I ran my business, and a Felder at a job latter in my working career. In my home shop I have a Minimax Lab 30. They really don't work that well for the way I work now. I really only use the rip fence about once a month. Considering the foot print needed to use those things, I just don't get the appeal in a small shop. I know my opinion will not be popular here, but I find I have to adapt to it too often. I've never liked the stock rip fences. I adapted a Biesmeyer to the Felder and was much happier. I don't like those tall aluminum rip fences. You don't have to tell me other options and accessories to set ripping widths I could use. Just not for me.

[Mick Simon]

Hi Josh,
I agree with Aaron's comments with one small correction. The SC4e does not come standard with a scoring motor. It comes standard with a belt driven scoring unit, including the blade.
I've owned the SC4e for about 3 years and use it for exactly what you've described as your intended uses. I frequently find myself wondering why I waited so long to buy one. I have a good friend with the K700S and can also say it's a fine machine. You won't be unhappy with either, iMO.

[Malcolm McLeod]

I have the SC4E w/ no regrets; speed and accuracy were a revelation (vs. Jet CS).
Perhaps you've seen this one: https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....San-Antonio-TX

Felder and Altendorf reps had no time for me or my silly questions.

[Aaron Inami]

Hi Josh,
I agree with Aaron's comments with one small correction. The SC4e does not come standard with a scoring motor. It comes standard with a belt driven scoring unit, including the blade.

Interesting. SCM's product picture shows a separate scoring motor, but the fine print says that it's an option.

https://www.scmgroup.com/en_US/scmwo...imax-sc-4e.663

[Josh Baldwin]

I have operated both Felder and Minimax sliding table saws at this level. Between the K500S and the SC4E, I think it's somewhat of a wash. That being said, there are some differences to be aware of.

Minimax SC4E points
- Minimax comes stock with a scoring motor and it runs all the time with the main motor.
- single phase 4.8HP main motor is a little more powerful than the Felder 4HP single phase
- Has an American standard 5/8" size for saw arbor which means you have an extremely large selection of blades to choose from.
- Uses the standard 3/4" t-slot in the slider, which means you can just plop in a normal Incra miter gauge or some other gauge/jig/clamp.
- A very nice DRO kit is available for the crosscut fence at a reasonable price: https://www.proscale.com/products/in.../907-3037-001/

Felder K500S points
- Felder does have an option for a separate scoring motor, which I highly recommend, but it does cost extra. It has it's own power switch so it can be off. I would highly recommend you get a scoring motor regardless.
- Felder uses a non-standard t-slot. My Felder K700S t-slot is 0.82" which means it's useless except for Felder clamps/jigs (and they are extremely expensive!).
- It uses the Euro sized 30mm saw arbor with two pins, which means you need special saw blades (they are available but not as widespread). I would recommend the Tenryu blades here as they are excellent.
- The overhead saw guard option on the Felder is awsome, but very expensive (I think it's an $1100 option).
- To me, I think the Felder X-roll table works and feels just a little bit better, but this is probably a small thing.
- No DRO options for the crosscut fence unless you fabricate your own (which can be challenging if you don't have metal working fabrication experience).

If I were to have to choose between those two options, I would probably choose the Minimax just because of the crosscut fence DRO kit. I have found that you be off by up to 1/16" when using a non-DRO flipstop. Actually, many of my cuts are off by 1/32" because you need to be directly above the hairline indicator when setting the fence and it's pretty much impossible to do this. If this doesn't bug you, then fine, but I think a crosscut DRO is a mandatory item.

If you could find a used Felder K700S that not more than 5-6 years in good condition, I would seriously consider that. The K700S line is a significant step up and improvement, but everything is also more expensive at this level, so be aware. With the K700S, you have a much better crosscut fence and overall machine. Some of these K700S will include the Felder crosscut DRO. However, if the fence has a non-DRO flipstop, you can get the Lamb Toolworks DRO flipstop for around $1500-1600 (depending).

Hey Aaron thanks for all the info, it's a huge help. I do like the fact that the Minimax can accept a broader range of accessories for sure. I planned on building an F&F jig or buying a set of nice DRO parallel guides like the Lamb Toolworks, but I bet I can get nicer and cheaper clamps for the Minimax, etc.

[Josh Baldwin]

I had a Griggio when I ran my business, and a Felder at a job latter in my working career. In my home shop I have a Minimax Lab 30. They really don't work that well for the way I work now. I really only use the rip fence about once a month. Considering the foot print needed to use those things, I just don't get the appeal in a small shop. I know my opinion will not be popular here, but I find I have to adapt to it too often. I've never liked the stock rip fences. I adapted a Biesmeyer to the Felder and was much happier. I don't like those tall aluminum rip fences. You don't have to tell me other options and accessories to set ripping widths I could use. Just not for me.

Hey Richard I totally get that. I think for me I'm looking to never use the rip fence and I agree the aluminum ones they come with don't look great for traditional ripping. My goal is to only use the slider for all of these operations with parallel guides/F&F jigs. I only mill lumber for 1 or 2 days a month for a job and I know I can get perfect results with this method vs what I normally get which is very good results with the traditional ripping method. But it certainly will take an extra 30 minutes or so for all of the rips vs the traditional method.

[Josh Baldwin]

I have the SC4E w/ no regrets; speed and accuracy were a revelation (vs. Jet CS).
Perhaps you've seen this one: https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....San-Antonio-TX

Felder and Altendorf reps had no time for me or my silly questions.

Hey Malcolm thanks for the info. Do you have any particular accessories or add ons with your SC4E that you would recommend? Did you deal with Sam for the purchase or someone else? The only thing really holding me back from the Minimax is that I've read so many horrible things about delivery problems, lack of customer service, technicians, etc. I don't think Felder is amazing in this category either, but I do know I can always get someone on the phone. I'm hoping maybe Minimax has improved over the years though and maybe they're pretty good now.

[Erik Loza]

Both are excellent machines. If I were shopping for a single-phase slider for my own shop, I would buy a Felder.

Good luck in your search.

Erik

[Jim Becker]

Both machines you cite are excellent. I'm in the SCM/Minimax camp and have an SC3C in my new shop building. (I had a 2005 eara S315WS in the old shop) What I like about the SC3C and the SC4C that you're considering is that they come with everything in a bundle when you buy the normal package. My saw is great and the difference between it and the SC4C is generally the stroke length. But I'm sure I'd be quite happy with the K500s, too.

[Warren Lake]

cant say I understand the fence comment. The generals I used had Besmeier frences and nothing is the SCM quality. You can lift them off. I rip conventional not with hans and franz and the SCM fence is way better.

[Aaron Inami]

Whichever saw you get, the absolute best clamping system is Mac's Air Clamps, but current pricing is somewhere between $2.5-3k and requires an air compressor. In the meantime, I would recommend these for sliding table clamps:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09KYBY6PN/

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0774X67G8/

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01H1WFNYC/

The Milescraft trackock kit includes t-slot bolts that fit in both the Minimax and Felder sliding tables. They connect perfectly with the Kreg benchclamps. You can get the cheaper Milecraft bench clamps, but they work like locking pliers and you constantly have to re-adjust them for different material heights. The Kreg auto-lock will clamp down on any material height. The 6" bench clamp will fit over the crosscut fence shown here (i put a couple of heatshrink tubes on the 6" to prevent dinging the crosscut fence):

kreg_clamps.jpg


One caveat. I have found that the Kreg clamps will pull the material back about 1-2mm when clamping down (which makes this perfect for a forward clamp against the crosscut fence). If you are just using this as a rear clamp, I would advise pushing the wood against the crosscut fence while you clamp down so that the material doesn't shift. If you clamp down the front crosscut end first, the rear clamp will work just fine here and won't pull the wood back.

Minimax does have a heavy-duty concentric clamp similar to this Felder:
https://www.felder-group.com/en-us/s...clamp-sp123941

Based on what I have seen, these clamps tend to push the material forward as you clamp down, which makes them a good "rear clamp", but I would not recommend using these for the front crosscut fence clamp. You can use one if you want, but they are extremely heavy and hard to handle. It's somewhat of a pain to adjust them and move them back-and-forth on the slider. It's so easy to loosen the kreg/milescraft kit and slide them back and forth for clamping.